Airport Consultative Committee [Questions & Responses]

[LBAYORKIE]

Thanks.

 

[KARFA]

LBA Yorkie, the presentation was given by the new manager of all three lounges and she did say that the airport were still in discussions with the various airlines such as BA, KLM, Eastern, Flybe etc. with regard to which lounge they would be giving their passengers access to and these are not yet confirmed. She did indicate however that it may well be possible to 'upgrade' the lounge allocated by the airline if the passenger so desires.

From what I have been told third hand (so take it with a pinch of salt!) those on BA/KL who currently have access to the YPL based on status or cabin will use the business level White Rose Suite. Those who are in a higher status tier and normally eligible to use a first lounge where provided (BA gold/ggls/premiers - sorry I don't know the KL equivalents) would not be entitled to access to the 1432 Runway Club, but the rumour is they would be able to use it by paying a upgrade fee of £5.

Regardless I am looking forward to trying them soon.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Malaga placed controls on cruise liners two years ago to control numbers. To this effect last Wednesday the largest cruise liner in the world called, may be less liners docking
But more tourists arriving.
Due to the semana Santa parades the town packed, even though the local trains and buses running 24/7 We had to queue for an hour at 4am in the morning just to get on the platform, makes rush hour in London look like a non event, fortunately we had not in until midnight to catch the parades and had a long siesta.

 

[AlanSinfield]

The Malaga flight was indeed primarily put on for the TUI/Marella cruises departing from there this summer. Originally they had taken seats on the Monarch flight which I was booked on. When that was cancelled due to their demise, I was moved onto an afternoon Dreamliner flight from Manchester. TUI then decided to cancel that one so I moved onto the new TUI flight to Malaga from LBA.

 

[AlanSinfield]

And TUI/Marella are not basing a cruise ship in Malaga for 2019, but using Naples instead as has been mentioned

 

[White Heather]

Dubrovnik is also a TUi cruise starting point, so no doubt that is one of the reasons behind the new route there for summer 2019

 

[lbaspotter]

Minutes of the Consultative Committee Meeting held at Leeds Bradford Airport Thursday 21st June 2018
https://www.leedsbradfordairport.co.uk/media/3083/acc-meeting_21-june-2018-minutes.pdf

Minutes of the Consultative Committee Meeting held at Leeds Bradford Airport Thursday 20th September 2018
https://www.leedsbradfordairport.co.uk/media/3084/acc-meeting-minutes_20-september-2018.pdf

 

[White Heather]

Hi guys, well today was the December meeting of the Airport Consultative Committee, so as promised I am reporting back on what I can. Rather than split it up here and there, I am putting it all in this thread, but may over time add comments to reflect today's information within the individual threads as appropriate.

The meeting was very interesting with a long, detailed and passionate talk given by David Laws, CEO. David gave us a lot of information, that I know would be of great interest, but sadly a lot of what he told us, was 'within these walls only' and I am not able to report back for a variety of reasons. But you all know how things are when it comes to Business, Contracts, Commercial in Confidence etc. All I will say is that despite the recent bad news (TUi/TCX), David was upbeat and showing he and the owners are determined to make up for lost time at LBA.

What I can tell you is:


Generally it has been a good year with passenger numbers as expected, although ending on a sour note due to the consolidation decisions made by TUi and Thomas Cook. With the latter, LBA is not being the only one affected. The TUi decision was unexpected and LBA are 'in dialogue' with TUi regarding that decision and its implications.

Confirmed that with Thomas Cook only the Tunisia route is still operating. Dalaman, Antalya and Palma all dropped but it was pointed out there is plenty of capacity on all routes with Jet2 (Turkey) and Jet2/Ryanair (Palma). Other airports are affected - not only LBA.

Flybe - the position with Flybe and its pending sale was discussed and David advised that nobody should underestimate the impact they have on the domestic market. All airports will be waiting to see if it is sold, who buys and what they do then. Some airports will be impacted heavily if the airline stopped operating the routes they do from those airports. He stated that Flybe routes out of LBA are doing well even into November, traditionally a quiet month.

BA - figures are improved over last year but would still improve further with a based night stopper. LBA are still pursuing this with BA.

KLM - most flights are departing either full or with a high load factor, but there are no slots available at AMS until 2021. KLM cannot therefore increase frequency on the route unless they remove flights from other airports to free up a slot for an extra LBA rotation. The alternative remains upgrading the route to KLM Mainline using a 737 but clearly KLM haven't taken up either option at this time.

Jet2 - 125,000 additional seats are available in summer 2019 compared to this summer, and they are expected to carry 2.2m passengers through LBA in the year . Three new routes - all previously announced.

New operators/routes - sadly it appears that the new route to a Euro Hub, mentioned 3 months ago, didn't happen despite the airline applying for the slots to fly it. A real shame as it was a hub that would have been really useful and one we had once before and then lost. Despite that, we were advised the other new airline/route(s) previously mentioned has not gone away and hopefully an announcement will be made very soon. This also involves a European Hub route with more to follow if all goes well. This would commence in April and by on sale by Christmas, assuming there are no last minute hitches. I did ask what type of aircraft and all I could get was that it has wings and engines - but they are jet powered, not turbo prop. So don't ask as I don't know but hopefully this time we will get a good outcome and not have too long to wait.

Pakistan - LBA management, aided by Pakistani representatives from Bradford, are continuing to talk to airlines with a view to bringing back a route to Leeds/Bradford. One particular airline is showing an interest and it is hoped the chief of that airline will be visiting LBA early in the new year. So watch this space for a bit longer...………..

Middle East routes - David advised that there was no point in even approaching airlines operating to the Middle East unless the facilities at LBA and the infrastructure meets their requirements, and these include rail access (via the Parkway station) and wide body holding lounges at the gates. The new terminal development will provide 400 seat holding lounges at the gates suitable for a wide body operation, so getting the Parkway Station built is critical in attracting these airlines. David also explained the huge success at NCL brought about by Emirates, the large passenger numbers they carry and also that the 777 actually carries more freight than the A380, with the result that a lot of freight is now moved from MAN up to NCL now to go into the hold of the 777. He describes this type of route as a 'game changer' and given the terminal/rail station he sees no reason why such a route cannot be successfully operated from LBA (presumably he doesn't see runway limitations as an issue, just as previous CEO's haven't).

Terminal Development - approval given subject to the usual raft of Section 106 requirements being met. LBA are in discussions with the West Yorkshire Combined Authority with regard to these. The start date for enabling works on site is intended to be February, subject to all the Section 106 issues being resolved. Contrary to some reports, there has been no reduction in the number of baggage carousels being installed, which remains 3 x double sized belts. These are of the type that are an inverted V shape, so that each belt has two sides, with luggage being carried simultaneously on both sides of the inverted V. It was also confirmed that the exit and ramp from the new terminal has been removed and passengers will now use a corridor through to the existing terminal and leave the building there. There will be a new greeting area where the current security screening zone is, and as previously stated, the new security screening zone will be where the current international baggage reclaim area is.

Snow plan - these has been worked up in detail in conjunction with airline handling agent partners. LBA has just invested £1.2m in new snow clearing and runway de-icing equipment, purchasing 2 new, compact, rear steering snow ploughs/brushes/blowers and a new runway de-icing spray lorry capable of de-icing all hard standing areas of the airfield. All are the latest technology and equipment available. A sobering thought is that last year, LBA used 180,000 litres of de-icing fluid on the runway/taxiways and apron and this stuff costs more than a litre of diesel at the pumps.

Sorry I cannot go into more detail with regard to the issues with airlines but it didn't surprise me that much of what we were advised is not to be made public.

 

[Aviador]

Thank you for taking time to update us. Do you have any idea when some of the things mentioned might go public or is it likely to remain commercial in confidence?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Many thanks for that fascinating resumee, White Heather.

Presumably these meetings are open to the public in which case it appears that any members of the public would have been excluded from parts of the meeting.

 

[White Heather]

Thank you for taking time to update us. Do you have any idea when some of the things mentioned might go public or is it likely to remain commercial in confidence?

I think that the nature of the beast is that they will remain In Confidence Aviador.

Many thanks for that fascinating resumee, White Heather.

Presumably these meetings are open to the public in which case it appears that any members of the public would have been excluded from parts of the meeting.

No Local Yokel, they are not open to the public. Only members can attend, or visitors by arrangement with the chair of the committee.

 

[a300boy]

All good to hear but it’s time for some solid good news not hype and hopes.
Thanks for the update I wish them nothing but a happy new routes and airlines New Year !

 

[TheLocalYokel]

No Local Yokel, they are not open to the public. Only members can attend, or visitors by arrangement with the chair of the committee.

Thank you again, White Heather.

The DfT April 2014 Guidelines for Airport Consultative Committees contains this advice at paragraph 2.17

Committees are encouraged to open their meetings to the public, unless there is a legitimate reason why it is inappropriate to do so. The manner in which the public are admitted to attend meetings should be decided by the committee according to local circumstances.

I suppose it might be said that the LBA committee is just about paying lip service to this advice by allowing visitors to attend by arrangement with the chair of the committee.

Committees seem to vary in their approach. I believe that Cardiff allows the public in and they can ask questions, but whether they have to give notice of their question beforehand I'm not sure. Bristol says their meetings are "generally open to the public".

Given that the DfT advice begins with this,

The Government expects all aerodromes to communicate openly and effectively with their local communities and users of the airport about the impact of their operations

I still sometimes get the impression that some committees aren't really all that keen to have the public present.

 

[mdobuk21]

Some encouragement in there, thanks for the update. It always seems to be similar outcomes with these meetings though. Hopefully some will come to fruition like the return of a carrier to Pakistan. Would be great if BA did nightstop and KLM upgraded to 737 but not sure this will happen anytime soon.

 

[White Heather]

Thank you again, White Heather.

The DfT April 2014 Guidelines for Airport Consultative Committees contains this advice at paragraph 2.17

Committees are encouraged to open their meetings to the public, unless there is a legitimate reason why it is inappropriate to do so. The manner in which the public are admitted to attend meetings should be decided by the committee according to local circumstances.

I suppose it might be said that the LBA committee is just about paying lip service to this advice by allowing visitors to attend by arrangement with the chair of the committee.

Committees seem to vary in their approach. I believe that Cardiff allows the public in and they can ask questions, but whether they have to give notice of their question beforehand I'm not sure. Bristol says their meetings are "generally open to the public".

Given that the DfT advice begins with this,

The Government expects all aerodromes to communicate openly and effectively with their local communities and users of the airport about the impact of their operations

I still sometimes get the impression that some committees aren't really all that keen to have the public present.

There are two problems with operating exactly in accordance with those guidelines though. One is security. You cannot just have anybody turning up at a meeting and wanting to go in these days. The meetings take place in airport buildings and they do need to know who is coming and who they are representing. Attendees are required to sign in on an attendance sheet. The other reason, is that were the meetings to be open to anyone who just fancies walking in, the premises might not be able to cope - certainly the LBA premises couldn't as it was a full room today with only around 20 people there. If all members turned up at the same meeting (which they never do) then it would be standing room only. In addition, visitors are only supposed to attend to watch, not to speak up, but if they decline to comply with this, meetings could descend into a farce very quickly. What would be nice to do and what is practical these days is probably two different things.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

It seems then that the DfT guidelines were not properly thought through. No surprise at all because it is a government department.

 

[White Heather]

It seems then that the DfT guidelines were not properly thought through. No surprise at all because it is a government department.

I agree. Perhaps they were thought through at a time long before the current security issues at airports and for airports whose committees met up in the local church hall with room for the masses! I think that at some airports and some meetings, airports generally might end up needing security guards and bouncers these days.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I agree. Perhaps they were thought through at a time long before the current security issues at airports and for airports whose committees met up in the local church hall with room for the masses! I think that at some airports and some meetings, airports generally might end up needing security guards and bouncers these days.

Although the guidelines were published as recently as 2014. I suspect they were an update of previous guidelines and possibly much of the earlier content transferred without serious thought. Anyway, there is nothing any of us can do about it. I appreciate the time you've taken in responding. Many thanks.

 

[White Heather]

All good to hear but it’s time for some solid good news not hype and hopes.
Thanks for the update I wish them nothing but a happy new routes and airlines New Year !

The solid good news is surely the terminal? And the further growth from Jet2? Or don't those count? As for hype and hopes, I can, if you prefer, not tell you the 'hopes' and everyone can wait until something is announced so you are not left in suspense and potentially disappointed. But, bear in mind that every single plan or intention starts off as 'hopes'. I can only tell you what we are told and do so simply to show what efforts LBA management are making to bring in other airlines and routes. I suspect that if I didn't, then the complaint would be that they are not doing anything at all? Your choice.

 

[White Heather]

Although the guidelines were published as recently as 2014. I suspect they were an update of previous guidelines and possibly much of the earlier content transferred without serious thought. Anyway, there is nothing any of us can do about it. I appreciate the time you've taken in responding. Many thanks.

I suspect you are correct. They are just guidelines so I guess each committee makes its own decisions based on size of meeting place, security issues, and sheer practicality.