Pakistan International Airlines

[backtrack]

Has anyone ever thought they may just be replacing one of the LBA services with the B772? A reduction to twice weekly doesnt mean that both services each week are to be on the B772. One service could be run with the B772 and the other with the A310.

For example if we compare seat numbers and demand;

Previous 3 x Airbus A310 = 522 seats per week

2 x Airbus A310 = 348 seats per week
1 x A310 plus 1 x B772 = 460 seats per week
2 x Boeing 777 = 570 seats per week

 

[michael]

With all the recent discussion regarding some B767's needing to refuel in MAN for longer flights I'm assuming if PIA bring in B777's they will have no problems in this respect?

 

[backtrack]

With all the recent discussion regarding some B767's needing to refuel in MAN for longer flights I'm assuming if PIA bring in B777's they will have no problems in this respect?

That, i think was with regard to the BGI flights. Pakistan, i believe is somewhat closer so those issues are not a problem for the likes of ISB out of LBA as a long haul route. Another example, is New York, the runway length would not be and we have seen is not a problem for re-fueling issues to go direct to New York.

 

[jw2k]

Its been said before that those A310's don't have that much more life in them and it has been mentioned that the 777 will replace the A310 on the LBA route, its just a case of when??

They sound bloody noisy when they're taking off and landing! Don't think I'd like to fly in one of them. The reliability must really be pretty poor since the flights seem to be almost constantly delayed both inbound and outbound.

 

[lbaspotter]

They sound bloody noisy when they're taking off and landing! Don't think I'd like to fly in one of them. The reliability must really be pretty poor since the flights seem to be almost constantly delayed both inbound and outbound.

HI there Jw2k and All members

I hope you could prove that last sentence you have just posted on here Jw2k, As that could be seen to be some nasty comments there, I dont think its safe to say they have reliability problems because there aircraft are noisy. They have had problems in the past with there A310 aircraft been banned from both UK and European skies. But this was rectified by PIA at the time in accordance with the guidelines set out by the EAA. Also don't you think if this was true and other people e.g. Airline engineers and Airport workers reported major faults time and time again on PIA aircraft that they would be banned again by both the CAA and EAA???

Please think before posting messages like the above Jw2k. I know it must seem harsh to see me reply like this but it’s the reputation of an international Airline you talking about here... Nobody on here would like to see any airline fail due to missed informed rumours and speculation. Your taliking about peoples jobs and lifes here.

 

[jw2k]

They sound bloody noisy when they're taking off and landing! Don't think I'd like to fly in one of them. The reliability must really be pretty poor since the flights seem to be almost constantly delayed both inbound and outbound.

I hope you could prove that last sentence you have just posted on here Jw2k, As that could be seen to be some nasty comments there, I dont think its safe to say they have reliability problems because there aircraft are noisy. They have had problems in the past with there A310 aircraft been banned from both UK and European skies. But this was rectified by PIA at the time in accordance with the guidelines set out by the EAA. Also don't you think if this was true and other people e.g. Airline engineers and Airport workers reported major faults time and time again on PIA aircraft that they would be banned again by both the CAA and EAA???

Please think before posting messages like the above Jw2k. I know it must seem harsh to see me reply like this but it’s the reputation of an international Airline you talking about here... Nobody on here would like to see any airline fail due to missed informed rumours and speculation. Your taliking about peoples jobs and lifes here.

If you would care to re-read my post, then you will see that I didn't say they have reliability problems because they're noisy. I was merely following up what had already been said about the A310s' reliability by other members ("Does anyone know if the PIA fleet of A310's is being reduced or the number of flights being cut due to their age and non reliability?" - White Heather; "Its been said before that those A310's don't have that much more life in them" - Runway 32) by adding that the PIA flights almost always seem to be delayed both inbound and outbound. A fairly innocent comment to make, and one that can readily be substantiated by looking at the departure and arrival times. I know there are a number of reasons why flights can be delayed, but whenever I browse down the departures and arrivals, the PIA flights recently have seemed to be consistently late.

Also, do you really think a couple of comments on this forum is going to cause an international airline to fail? No one here is casting aspersions on the safety of the aircraft in question. It's a bit like having an old car - probably perfectly safe to drive, but a bit of a pain if it needs a lot of maintenance. Look, I'm new to posting on here, so I don't want to piss anybody off, and I'm certainly not here to go trolling or to badmouth any people or airlines. I would, however, stand by what I said in my first post, and hope that I've been able to clarify my previous remarks in this one.

 

[lbaspotter]

Hi

Thanks for you replay jw2k. I'm all for free speech myself on these forums. So it is much appreciated that you have now clarified your position on this matter. I fully understand where you coming from after that very informative post.

By the way I should have also pointed out Chittys last post as well. So pointing my fingur just at you Jw2k was wrong. And i will admit that on here, So I'm sorry if that has upset you in anyway. I look forward reading more posts from you in the future.

By way Welcome to Forum4airports.

 

[jw2k]

Hi

Thanks for you replay jw2k. I'm all for free speech myself on these forums. So it is much appreciated that you have now clarified your position on this matter. I fully understand where you coming from after that very informative post.

By the way I should have also pointed out Chittys last post as well. So pointing my fingur just at you Jw2k was wrong. And i will admit that on here, So I'm sorry if that has upset you in anyway. I look forward reading more posts from you in the future.

By way Welcome to Forum4airports.

No problem, glad we were able to sort that out

 

[White Heather]

I am more concerned with the comments by Chitty - or rather Chitty's brother. To state that the PIA A310 always comes in to land too **** and too **** is patently not true and those comments are alarmist to say the least. I am pretty sure that the PIA pilots will be landing on the normal glideslope and therefore not too high, and I have watched dozens and dozens of them land over my house and they are definitely not flying any faster than any other jet aircraft. Given the LBA runway is not the longest in the world, why would they?? The A310's I have seen land when up at the airport have made excellent landings and had no problem with the runway length.

To say that the A310 is unreliable certainly has an element of truth based on information we have seen on here, but there are other reasons for delays - they are not all due to unreliability. Yes the aircraft is noisier too, but it is an old design now. However, statements that the A310 has amost ****** on the runway due to its approach being too **** or too ****, or that LBA will not let the B777 land because it WILL **** on the runway are clearly rediculous - and untrue also. :nea:

Edited by Aviador for legal reasons.

 

[Aviador]

Chitty your post has been deleted.

Your post goes way beyond the jurisdiction of Forums4airports.com. If you have a genuine safety concern regarding the safety of PIA aircraft then you (or your brother) should take it up with the relevant authorities. It is definitely not a discussion suitable for forums4airports.com

Aviador

Back to the topic

Firstly welcome to Forums4airports 'Jw2k'

To answer your earlier comments about delays, any airline can incur delays and airlines often have no control over them. Many things can delay an aircraft such as Security, Police and Customs through to Check-in, baggage and Air Traffic Control among other things. Tonights flight was running late again and to be fair, an hour delay on a flight that takes around eight hours isn't too bad.

 

[jw2k]

Firstly welcome to Forums4airports 'Jw2k'

Hello

To answer your earlier comments about delays, any airline can incur delays and airlines often have no control over them. Many things can delay an aircraft such as Security, Police and Customs through to Check-in, baggage and Air Traffic Control among other things. Tonights flight was running late again and to be fair, an hour delay on a flight that takes around eight hours isn't too bad.

Yeah, I know, that's totally a fair comment. It seems so normal to see the rest of the flights from Jet2, BMI, etc. departing either on time, sometimes early, or sometimes a little late, which is to be expected. It's just that the PIA flights always seem to stand out from the rest in terms of punctuality. All I was saying is that it fitted in with comments that a lot of other people were making about the A310s' reliability - but I acknowledge that there can be many reasons why flights can be delayed. All I would say, though, is that it would be interesting to see if/when PIA maybe swap to using a 777 for the LBA>ISB flight, whether or not the punctuality improves... My guess would be that it will Be cool to see a different plane like that landing as well.

The only other thing that I want to say is that contrary to what was said earlier on, I happened to see the PIA flight landing this evening and I actually thought it was coming in fairly slowly! Maybe the pilot had caught the earlier comments about approach speed

 

[jw2k]

I should quite clearly be asleep right now (it's far too late!), but carrying on the theme of age/reliability, if I've been reading correctly from planespotters.net, it would actually appear that PIA's A310s are, on average, actually a few years younger than a lot of Jet2's 737s... I just thought that was quite interesting; it was actually the converse of what I was expecting.

 

[Bigman]

I must admit that I do actually like to see/hear a nice noisy A310 taking off on 32 on a night. So many planes are quiet these days, which I don't disagree with being a local resident. It is just nice to see something nice, big and noisy every now and then.

 

[White Heather]

Totally agree Bigman

I really miss the 1-11's, 737-200's and all the other old smokey noisy types we used to have. They were like the old buses - more character and more different types. I certainly wouldn't say no to the odd visit (during the day) if they were still allowed.

The problem is that the A310 doesn't comply with the airport's noise targets - in fact it was the only aircraft type to exceed it in the most recent stats issued to the consultative committee. I think its a nice aircraft though and will be sad to see it go (eventually!)

 

[ex_crew]

Couldnt agree more, there was nothing better than hearing the deafning noise of the 1-11s and 727s. It was part of the attraction, made you appreciate the power of the aircraft.

 

[tk343]

Islamabad carried 3306 in February an increase of 24% from February last year.

So it really does make me wonder why they are cutting the frequency.

 

[White Heather]

Does anyone know if this co-incides with an A310 fleet reduction? Perhaps they are short of that type and have switched to a 777 out of MAN (LBA still not being ready for the type).

 

[User0001]

The flight last night to ISB from Man was a 777-200,according to the ISB arrivals board

 

[harehills]

the MAN flights have always been 777-200 for the past 4-5 years. the only time they have been on A310 is when the 777 has been unavailable usually during hajj times. incidentally over the easter period PIA will be deploying the 747 on the isb-man sector due to high loads. so that could be a reason. man is getting higher loads than lba. on the other hand i do expec the 747 to be a regular visitor to man over the summer which could free up a 777 for lba every now and again. the 777-200 in the PIA fleet is highly utilised and doesnthave much spare time at present to operte the lba routea those aircraft are used for PIAs american and canadian routes at present. as for the A30s pia does not currently plan to remov this type from its fleet. apparently these aircraf have got another 4-5 years life in them so will be regulars at lba for atleast a few more years

 

[Aviador]

as for the A30s pia does not currently plan to remov this type from its fleet. apparently these aircraf have got another 4-5 years life in them so will be regulars at lba for atleast a few more years

I presume you are talking about the Airbus A310?

PIA has already told the airport that the A310s are within the last 18 months of their workable life so an alternative will need to be found sooner rather than later. The airline has discussed bringing in the Boeing 777-200 into LBA which is achievable with some slight alterations to lighting I am reliably informed.

If they are to commence Boeing 777 ops from Leeds, I would imagine that the airline will probably need to carry out some sort of proving flight to see how the aircraft performs out of Leeds' relatively short runway and also to see how the terminal copes with the large volumes of meeters and greeters.

If the Boeing 777 doesn't perform from LBA then PIA will have to look at another aircraft type such as the A330 otherwise LBA will be at risk of loosing the service.