Pakistan International Airlines
- Thread starter lbaspotter
- Start date
- Tagged users None
White Heather
Elite Pro-Member
LBA confirmed again today (at the airport consultative committee) that it remains the intention that the flight is upgraded to a 777, but no dates were given. They just said that they are continuing to make preparations for it.
- Thread starter
- Moderator
- #803
Hey we may actually see PIA introduce the Boeing 777's to LBA soon rather than later on the Islamabad route along and other European operated Airbus A310 routes that PIA operate. They again they may just axe all there Airbus A310 European routes altogether.
As I hear today that PIA's Airbus A310's are on the brink off been banned from European Airspace again, This is due to an incident that happen last month down in Paris after 40 safety-related defaults were found on one of PIA's Airbus A310 aircraft. The list also included fuel leakages and the inefficiency of crew to evacuate the aircraft in an emergency situation with 90 seconds.
The French CAA has asked its Pakistani counterpart about the steps it has taken so far to improve the safety standards following the last months incident and what's it doing to improve the safety levels and if these were up to satisfaction and met the European safety standards. If not the following elements appear among the common criteria for consideration of an operating ban for safety reasons at European level listed in the European regulation EC 2111/2005.
As I hear today that PIA's Airbus A310's are on the brink off been banned from European Airspace again, This is due to an incident that happen last month down in Paris after 40 safety-related defaults were found on one of PIA's Airbus A310 aircraft. The list also included fuel leakages and the inefficiency of crew to evacuate the aircraft in an emergency situation with 90 seconds.
The French CAA has asked its Pakistani counterpart about the steps it has taken so far to improve the safety standards following the last months incident and what's it doing to improve the safety levels and if these were up to satisfaction and met the European safety standards. If not the following elements appear among the common criteria for consideration of an operating ban for safety reasons at European level listed in the European regulation EC 2111/2005.
Jordan-34092
Well-Known Member
I hope they don't ban them it might just give PIA the excuse then to pull out of LBA,saying they haven't got the aircraft no more to operate to LBA. I know im being total prick, i know some may think of worse words, but im only seeing it from all angles, even if what i say is bad.
- Admin
- #805
Concorde Lover said:
Have you been drinking too much pop?
If the A310's are banned by Europe. It may well lead to the route being re looked at if the Boeing 777s are redeployed on more profitable routes.
U
User0001
Guest
One way in which LBA may loose out is that IF the A310's are banned, it then means the B777 fleet needs to be spread even more thinly, and places like LBA will be lower on the pecking order.
For example, if you only have say, 2 B777 flights you can spare due to the fleet already being maxed out, where are you going to send it? To LBA where you have a B777 station 60 miles away and your passengers can be just about catered for, or CDG where your nearest alternative is London so the job is a little more daunting?
For example, if you only have say, 2 B777 flights you can spare due to the fleet already being maxed out, where are you going to send it? To LBA where you have a B777 station 60 miles away and your passengers can be just about catered for, or CDG where your nearest alternative is London so the job is a little more daunting?
whoshotjimmi
Well-Known Member
I think that is a no brainer.
If the A310's are banned again, LBA will lose the flight. PIA just don't have the resources or the management acumen to work around it.
If the A310's are banned again, LBA will lose the flight. PIA just don't have the resources or the management acumen to work around it.
- Moderator
- #808
I agree!
Jordan-34092
Well-Known Member
It seems today PIA flight, 775, is delayed by appropriately 1h 24m, Having took off from ISB at 14:48 (SCHEDULED: 13:30) and arrival now at 19:24 (SCHEDULED 18:00). Looks like another un reliable flight by PIA.
whoshotjimmi
Well-Known Member
I honestly don't think an hour and a half delay can be described as unreliable. Such delays are relatively common in the aviation world. unreliable would be more like a 4+ hour delay or cancellation. Considering the flooding issues in Pakistan and the strong headwind, an hour and a half doesn't seem too bad.
Jordan-34092
Well-Known Member
Highly unlikely the 777 will come into LBA.
- Admin
- #813
Concorde Lover said:
On top of my earlier post about check-in hall B getting fitted out with additional computer equipment ready for the Boeing 777. This evening Robson's are working on carousels 2 & 3 installing a link to enable larger flights to be accommodated more easily in the arrivals area.
I can't remember if I posted it or not but the airport are going to fit a codeco computer system at Gate 3 so Servisair can board onto buses more easily onto "the remote stands" - all seems to tie in with the extra codeco systems in B Hall. it could either mean that during the winter, gates 9/10 will be out of action due to the terminal works and the Thomas Cook will go from gate 3 onto remote stands OR certain larger aircraft that are too big to park elsewhere will be coming in - hint hint.
White Heather
Elite Pro-Member
Concorde Lover, you say that the 777 is highly unlikely to come to LBA, but what do you base this on? Speak to the airport directors and they will tell you that they, and PIA, are continuing to work towards it's introduction. Recent changes to NOTAM's also included, for the first time, the 777-200 as an aircraft type. Whenever I attend Consultative Committee meetings, and there is (always) some comment about the A310 being late and breaching noise regulations (ie take off after 2300 due to a delay), we are told that the introduction of the 777 will eliminate that issue completely, since it will not breach the noise regulations whatever time it departs.
I am not saying that the 777 will, or will not come to LBA, but there is more than enough evidence to suggest it will do, assuming that PIA don't change their mind again about operating from LBA long term. If they do introduce the 777 it is surely an indication of their commitment to the airport, because they are not going to stand the cost of doing so only to withdraw the service shortly afterwards.
I am not saying that the 777 will, or will not come to LBA, but there is more than enough evidence to suggest it will do, assuming that PIA don't change their mind again about operating from LBA long term. If they do introduce the 777 it is surely an indication of their commitment to the airport, because they are not going to stand the cost of doing so only to withdraw the service shortly afterwards.
Jordan-34092
Well-Known Member
I base it on the fact they seem to change their minds all the time, i don't have faith in the PIA General Manager Revenue Manager, Mr Rashid Aziz, saying "enable us to extend a better service with a B777 in the near future". Use Glasgow as an example.
And with the fact the A310 is going to be banned from EU airspace again due to serious flaws, which could include the B777 aircraft of PIA fleet, i dont think the route will last.
[textarea]PIA’s Airbus operations in Europe face ban
Javed Mirza
Friday, September 09, 2011
KARACHI: French aviation authorities have asked the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) of Pakistan to submit report on compliance over the shortcomings detected by Safety Assessment of Foreign Aircraft Programme (SAFA) inspectors on a PIA Airbus A-310 on August 09, 2011.
Failure to comply may result in ban on PIA’s Airbus operations in European airspace.
The CAA was supposed to submit compliance report by September 7, 2011.
A spokesman for the CAA said the report had been submitted, but sources told The News it had not been. The passengers were evacuated in emergency when the safety team detected fuel leak from one of the engines of Airbus A310 flying from Paris to Lahore. Gilbert Guicheney, Director Civil Aviation France, in a letter written on August 23, 2011, asked the CAA to furnish complete details of rectification of the faults.
The letter demands a “detailed evaluation on the adequacy and efficiency of the corrective action plan proposed and implemented by PIA in regard to the identified safety deficiencies”.
The French aviation authority underlined a list of elements appearing among the common criteria for consideration of an operating ban for safety reasons at European level listed in the European Regulation.
These elements include lack of transparency or adequate and timely communication on the part of the carrier in response to an inquiry by the CAA of a member state regarding the safety aspect of its operation, inappropriate or insufficient corrective action plan and lack of cooperation with the CAA of a member state by the authorities of another state. The aircraft of the national flag carrier that had been detained at the French airport owing to safety reasons citing some 39 faults including fuel leakage arrived in the city on Monday.
Sources said the plane was returning home from Milan via Paris and when it landed at Charles de Gualle airport the European aviation inspectors detected the faults and directed the crew to offload the passengers.
One of the snags that the inspectors pointed out relates to the crew’s lack of efficiency as it said that the crew was not able to manage a quick and correct emergency evacuation of the aircraft on the fireman’s request. Evacuation took place 20 minutes after the fireman’s request, said the aviation regulator.
Aviation experts said that since the regulator lacks proper independent human resource and PIA pilots are on both sides of the table, the safety procedures had been compromised by CAA officials.
Sources said that the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) mentioned in one of its audit report that the CAA Pakistan’s acquiring technical human resource from an operator created conflict of interest. It said the CAA Pakistan should develop its own human resource for better regulatory operations.
Sources said Christophe Bruni, DGAC Safety Oversight Directorate (DSAC) Of Foreign Airlines Observatory Program Manager, sent a letter to CAA Pakistan on September 2, stating that he was looking forward to receiving evidence of the corrective action plan as well as evaluation on the adequacy and efficiency of the proposed corrective actions. Captain Javed Saeed Chaudhry, a CAA official, had written a letter to DG CAA France assuring full implementation of safety standards in light of inspection report by SAFA Inspectors.
The CAA letter mentioned that PIA had been directed to further improve its safety programme and intimate CAA for perusal and approval.
“At our end we have intensified our surveillance programme to eliminate the safety discrepancies,” the letter added.
Source[/textarea]
And if worse comes to worse and the A310 Fleet is banned, it is the most definite perfect excuse to close the LBA-ISB route.
And with the fact the A310 is going to be banned from EU airspace again due to serious flaws, which could include the B777 aircraft of PIA fleet, i dont think the route will last.
[textarea]PIA’s Airbus operations in Europe face ban
Javed Mirza
Friday, September 09, 2011
KARACHI: French aviation authorities have asked the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) of Pakistan to submit report on compliance over the shortcomings detected by Safety Assessment of Foreign Aircraft Programme (SAFA) inspectors on a PIA Airbus A-310 on August 09, 2011.
Failure to comply may result in ban on PIA’s Airbus operations in European airspace.
The CAA was supposed to submit compliance report by September 7, 2011.
A spokesman for the CAA said the report had been submitted, but sources told The News it had not been. The passengers were evacuated in emergency when the safety team detected fuel leak from one of the engines of Airbus A310 flying from Paris to Lahore. Gilbert Guicheney, Director Civil Aviation France, in a letter written on August 23, 2011, asked the CAA to furnish complete details of rectification of the faults.
The letter demands a “detailed evaluation on the adequacy and efficiency of the corrective action plan proposed and implemented by PIA in regard to the identified safety deficiencies”.
The French aviation authority underlined a list of elements appearing among the common criteria for consideration of an operating ban for safety reasons at European level listed in the European Regulation.
These elements include lack of transparency or adequate and timely communication on the part of the carrier in response to an inquiry by the CAA of a member state regarding the safety aspect of its operation, inappropriate or insufficient corrective action plan and lack of cooperation with the CAA of a member state by the authorities of another state. The aircraft of the national flag carrier that had been detained at the French airport owing to safety reasons citing some 39 faults including fuel leakage arrived in the city on Monday.
Sources said the plane was returning home from Milan via Paris and when it landed at Charles de Gualle airport the European aviation inspectors detected the faults and directed the crew to offload the passengers.
One of the snags that the inspectors pointed out relates to the crew’s lack of efficiency as it said that the crew was not able to manage a quick and correct emergency evacuation of the aircraft on the fireman’s request. Evacuation took place 20 minutes after the fireman’s request, said the aviation regulator.
Aviation experts said that since the regulator lacks proper independent human resource and PIA pilots are on both sides of the table, the safety procedures had been compromised by CAA officials.
Sources said that the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) mentioned in one of its audit report that the CAA Pakistan’s acquiring technical human resource from an operator created conflict of interest. It said the CAA Pakistan should develop its own human resource for better regulatory operations.
Sources said Christophe Bruni, DGAC Safety Oversight Directorate (DSAC) Of Foreign Airlines Observatory Program Manager, sent a letter to CAA Pakistan on September 2, stating that he was looking forward to receiving evidence of the corrective action plan as well as evaluation on the adequacy and efficiency of the proposed corrective actions. Captain Javed Saeed Chaudhry, a CAA official, had written a letter to DG CAA France assuring full implementation of safety standards in light of inspection report by SAFA Inspectors.
The CAA letter mentioned that PIA had been directed to further improve its safety programme and intimate CAA for perusal and approval.
“At our end we have intensified our surveillance programme to eliminate the safety discrepancies,” the letter added.
Source[/textarea]
And if worse comes to worse and the A310 Fleet is banned, it is the most definite perfect excuse to close the LBA-ISB route.
- Admin
- #817
From what I gather LBA has a stay of execution until around the end of November by which time PIA will have to decide what they are going to do. By all accounts the airport has taken all the necessary steps to enable Boeing 777 operations so it's up to PIA to make the next move.
Like everybody else, I will be delighted to see the aircraft at Leeds if PIA do bring the aircraft to Leeds Bradford airport, but as I have said before, everything is stacking up against PIA operating the 777 into Leeds. It's likely to be a do or die situation for their whole operation at the airport if they decide not to go-ahead.
Like everybody else, I will be delighted to see the aircraft at Leeds if PIA do bring the aircraft to Leeds Bradford airport, but as I have said before, everything is stacking up against PIA operating the 777 into Leeds. It's likely to be a do or die situation for their whole operation at the airport if they decide not to go-ahead.
U
User0001
Guest
The whole PIA saga is a strange one.
LBA seem to be putting in lots of effort to accommodate a B777, but, the market and outside conditions seem to be up against PIA, and PIA themselves don't seem to be committing to the cause.
I'm sorry to say, but, if the A310 ban happens, then LBA will probably be first on the chopping block.
There are other A310 routes in Europe, such as CDG, which have required a B777 upgrade first due to the safety worries, and with Manchester close by, why try and stretch the B777 fleet to the absolute limit when your passengers can be accommodated down the road with B773's (that cant get into LBA).
If the A310's last until this supposed upgrade, then LBA might just stay and get the B777, but, if the A310 ban comes first, then LBA looks shaky to say the least.
LBA seem to be putting in lots of effort to accommodate a B777, but, the market and outside conditions seem to be up against PIA, and PIA themselves don't seem to be committing to the cause.
I'm sorry to say, but, if the A310 ban happens, then LBA will probably be first on the chopping block.
There are other A310 routes in Europe, such as CDG, which have required a B777 upgrade first due to the safety worries, and with Manchester close by, why try and stretch the B777 fleet to the absolute limit when your passengers can be accommodated down the road with B773's (that cant get into LBA).
If the A310's last until this supposed upgrade, then LBA might just stay and get the B777, but, if the A310 ban comes first, then LBA looks shaky to say the least.
It does look very uncertain for the future of the route when you read that they are having constant bad press being released about them.
What happens though if the ban isn't imposed....?
I think that if the ban isn't imposed then the future of the route looks very pleasant.
We have all seen how 'tight' Bridgepoint have been with their finances since they took over the airport, and so do we actually believe that they would spend a huge amount of finance, which could have gone into other developments that the airport is in need for, preparing for the B777 to come to LBA when it may not happen.....? I don't think so.
In my opinion, PIA must have been in contact with LBA about a possible B777 route, or else the precautions and preparations for the aircraft would not have been made. In addition, Bridgepoint are definitely not going to spend money when something is not going to happen, which makes me think is there some sort of guarantee that PIA will bring the B777 into LBA.......??
Who knows... :dunno:
What happens though if the ban isn't imposed....?
I think that if the ban isn't imposed then the future of the route looks very pleasant.
We have all seen how 'tight' Bridgepoint have been with their finances since they took over the airport, and so do we actually believe that they would spend a huge amount of finance, which could have gone into other developments that the airport is in need for, preparing for the B777 to come to LBA when it may not happen.....? I don't think so.
In my opinion, PIA must have been in contact with LBA about a possible B777 route, or else the precautions and preparations for the aircraft would not have been made. In addition, Bridgepoint are definitely not going to spend money when something is not going to happen, which makes me think is there some sort of guarantee that PIA will bring the B777 into LBA.......??
Who knows... :dunno:
U
User0001
Guest
Oh don't get me wrong, I don't doubt for one second PIA/LBA are speaking to each other, but it just strikes me as odd that the majority of 'noise' regarding the B777 has come from LBA rather than PIA.
However, I stand by that the A310 situation may dictate what happens, and LBA won't be able to control it.
However, I stand by that the A310 situation may dictate what happens, and LBA won't be able to control it.
Similar threads
Remove Advertisements
Subscribe to help support your favourite forum and in return we'll remove all our advertisements. Your contribution will help to pay for things like site maintenance, domain name renewals and annual server charges.
NEW - Profile Posts
If anyone would like to share their local airport news right here in our news area let me know so I can give you the correct permissions to do so. It only takes a couple of minutes to upload a news story with an accompanying image. The news items can then be shared on the site homepage by you. #TakePart #Forums4airports Bring the news to one place!
Well it looks like I'm off to Australia and New Zealand next year! Booked with BA from Manchester via Heathrow with a stop in Singapore and returning with Air New Zealand and BA via LAX to Heathrow. Will circumnavigate the globe and be my first trans-Pacific flight. First long haul flight with BA as well and of course Air NZ.
Trending Hashtags
-
#liverpoolairportWeight: 3
-
#Jet2Weight: 2
-
#GetUKDomesticFlightsMovingWeight: 1
-
#LiverpoolJohnLennonWeight: 1
-
#EasyJetWeight: 1
-
#LBAreviewWeight: 1