Route Development & Rumours

[Brum X]

Hi there ray, as well as contacting Virgin, I also contacted British Airways and Delta Airlines, so I'm just awaiting for there replies now, then I will be brief you on their response when I get it...Andyc

Thanks Andrew for your efforts.

And as we have said, we also need to support our existing x 2 carriers that offer direct flights from BHX to the USA and of course Icelandair with there USA/Canada offering.

 

[IanFarquharson]

American are very pleased with the BHX to date, the loads I have seen have not been great (on the face of it) but we cannot see what the yield is and how future bookings are. I am hearing noises about a potential new route !

 

[Ray Finkle]

I hear that they have a healthy cargo contract which, if true, must add alot to the overall yield.

I'd bet a potential new route would be Chicago and most likely seasonal at first.

 

[Brum X]

I hear that they have a healthy cargo contract which, if true, must add alot to the overall yield.

I'd bet a potential new route would be Chicago and most likely seasonal at first.

That would be great and an upgrade to the 767 on the JFK, but one thing at a time. I wish American great success at BHX.

 

[User001]

Spoke to a united rep today and he says BHX slated to get a B767-300 in 2017.

Basically, the B767-300 will be rolled out in phases onto current B757 routes after a refit on the fleet. MAN and a European airport I forget the name of will be getting them next summer, then BHX and 3 other Euro points in 2017.

They would like to do all routes sooner, but, the refit schedule is what's holding them up.

 

[Brum X]

Nice one User001, thanks for the info.

Have you heard anything about American happy with there first year at BHX ????

 

[Ray Finkle]

Hi there ray, as well as contacting Virgin, I also contacted British Airways and Delta Airlines, so I'm just awaiting for there replies now, then I will be brief you on their response when I get it...Andyc

From what I hear talks have been held with Delta, whether anything will come of it then only time will tell.

Chicago is a good connecting hub and could offer something different to JFK.

If true then after years of stagnation BHX-USA could be about to get interesting. Especially with the prospect of Norwegian potentially starting the likes of Boston next year.

 

[nwoody2001]

well im just happy to hear that AA appear to be happy with the route. The reasons behind this is anyone guess and we'll probably not know, but the priority her is that BHX needs AA to work and stay if we are to have a credible transatlantic network.

agree with Ray, hopefully this is the start of things to come, AA, UA, the talk of expanded connectivity to Canada and then rumours of new potential routes is all very promising...

 

[jfy1999]

Hi there ray, as well as contacting Virgin, I also contacted British Airways and Delta Airlines, so I'm just awaiting for there replies now, then I will be brief you on their response when I get it...Andyc

Thanks Andrew for your efforts.

And as we have said, we also need to support our existing x 2 carriers that offer direct flights from BHX to the USA and of course Icelandair with there USA/Canada offering.

It might also be worth contacting Air Transat after a rumour they were to go year-round to Toronto with an A310 in winter. I think User001 notified us although there don't seem to have been any further developments.

Spoke to a united rep today and he says BHX slated to get a B767-300 in 2017.

Basically, the B767-300 will be rolled out in phases onto current B757 routes after a refit on the fleet. MAN and a European airport I forget the name of will be getting them next summer, then BHX and 3 other Euro points in 2017.

They would like to do all routes sooner, but, the refit schedule is what's holding them up.

How are our UA load factors right now? If the 757s aren't being filled, and if we haven't seen much growth by the time the 767s arrive, it might be a case of the route surviving on yield, like AA are doing now. Hopefully that isn't the case, though. I'd imagine the refit was planned with thinner routes in mind.

From what I hear talks have been held with Delta, whether anything will come of it then only time will tell.

Chicago is a good connecting hub and could offer something different to JFK.

If true then after years of stagnation BHX-USA could be about to get interesting. Especially with the prospect of Norwegian potentially starting the likes of Boston next year.

It would be worth seeing the respective advantages of AA flights to ORD and Delta flights to ATL, in terms of airline product and service and the advantages of each airport as a hub.

 

[Ray Finkle]

It might also be worth contacting Air Transat after a rumour they were to go year-round to Toronto with an A310 in winter.

I very much doubt you'll see Air Transat operating this winter.

How are our UA load factors right now?

December was 86%. It's rarely been much less than that and isn't uncommon to be well into the 90's.

It would be worth seeing the respective advantages of AA flights to ORD and Delta flights to ATL, in terms of airline product and service and the advantages of each airport as a hub.

Given the choice then Delta to Atlanta would offer a greater range of connections. If we are talking purely about a new route from AA then Chicago probably offers more than JFK (other than to South America).

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there ray, had a response back from delta airlines, saying that due to economic pressure between Heathrow and Manchester, it doesn't permit them to do it, but it shouldn't stop passengers from using delta between Manchester and Heathrow. My own personal opinion is because Manchester already has a Virgin presence at Manchester, as do Virgin fly out from Heathrow as well, but as well as that, I know that because delta and Virgin have a partnership agreement and tie up, this why they won't commit any else because this will ruin an existing agreement in place..Andyc

 

[Kevin Farnell]

Spoke to a united rep today and he says BHX slated to get a B767-300 in 2017.

That sounds very positive for the route.
My first thought was an upgrade from a B757-200 to a B767-300 would be a huge increase in seats. However looking at an airline seat map website I find the following for United

B757-200 16 Business 45 Economy Plus 108 Economy
B767-300 30 Business 49 Economy Plus 135 Economy

That's assuming a 2 Class B767-300 and no seating changes in the refit.

Looking at United's own seat map plan (not daily, but on a regular basis), I would give a general view of seat take up as -

Business - good to excellent
Economy Plus - mediocre
Economy - good to excellent

I realise these are just 'snapshots' and give no indications of upgrades etc, but the B767-300 seems to add seats in the classes most likely to provide growth without really adding to the seats that are less likely to fill.
I assume also, that the B767-300 would allow a greater cargo uplift.
I also think the introduction of a widebody could help growth of the route, as many people expect this on a long haul service.

Kevin

 

[User001]

The thing with writing to or tweeting the airline about strategy is unlikely to bring the desired results.

Airline strategy is highly confidential and sensitive, so, they are not going to reply to any letters from enthusiasts with 'oh actually, we're looking at running the flight next year' in case competitors steak the March.

They usually don't give anything away until the official release is done.

 

[CL44]

Oh such a big increase in cargo capacity. From just over 1000 kgs to best part of 10000 kgs (going from memory here so my figures might be off a little bit). The big advantage is uld's can be used and a maximum height of 155ish for loaded units. This would open so many options for cargo and mail to be a real advantage for United.

 

[IanFarquharson]

Routes America

http://www.routesonline.com/airports/23 ... irport-uk/

BHX in attendance will anything come out of this event ?

 

[nwoody2001]

That link just takes you to the BHX profile on Routes in, which event do you mean? A quick looks at events tells us...

+ World Routes 2016, Chengdu, Sept - BHX Confirmed, along with EMA, LHR, LPL, LTN, MAN, NCL and STN

+ Routes America 2016, San Juan, Feb - BHX Confirmed, Only UK Airport!!!!!

+ Routes Asia 2016, Manila, Mar - BHX Confirmed, along with LGW, MAN and STN

+ Routes Europe 2016, Krakow - BHX Confirmed, along with nearly every airport in the UK

Impressive to see that BHX is the only UK airport at all of the above event, seems they are properly committed to promoting the airport. I'm shocked that MAN seem to go to every other conference but are not going to Routes America??? Another shock is the lack of both GLA and EDI at any of the above with the exception of the European event!!!???

As ian says, lets wish BHX luck at the Routes America event 17th-19th of Feb... I suspect the team will be using AA to fly there!!!

 

[Ray Finkle]

It was only a couple of weeks after Routes America that we heard about the return of American Airlines.

Hopefully this will be an opportunity to cross the t's and dot the i's on one or two potential new services that they may be working on.

American, United, Westjet, Air Transat and Norwegian will all be in attendance :smile:

 

[User001]

As far as I'm aware, the majority of meetings at the routes event are pre-arranged, so, it could well be for the routes America conference, MAN is already in dialogue with the airlines they could have met at routes.

It's also worth pointing out MAN is promoted by default as routes is a Manchester based company and showcases Manchester on its own accord.

 

[nwoody2001]

As far as I'm aware, the majority of meetings at the routes event are pre-arranged, so, it could well be for the routes America conference, MAN is already in dialogue with the airlines they could have met at routes.

It's also worth pointing out MAN is promoted by default as routes is a Manchester based company and showcases Manchester on its own accord.

I agree with you User001, theses are not the be-all and end-all, of course dialogue can happen outside of these events, im just stating that MAN appreciates the worth of going to all other events, but not the Americas Routes one???

Also, as stated in an interview with the BHX RD Team about the world routes, they identified CSA Czech Airlines as an airline they had not previously spoken to, was not a priority airline to target, but they approached BHX and within 5 weeks, the route was announced! sometimes just being present is enough!!!

now that said, MAN has been a lot more successful than BHX in the last 5-10 years in attracting routes, maybe they know something we don't....
...but ray, lets hope you're right and look out for something

 

[David_itl]

But exactly what routes would MAN garner from going to Routes America with regular services to New York, Chicago, Washington, Orlando, Boston, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Philadelphia and Atlanta already? The airlines who would be the favourites to start a new route already fly to MAN so they could raise the prospect of starting a new route when they have meetings with them. For it's part Dallas Airport wants a link to MAN so they may be negotiating with AA already?! For BHX that conference is an ideal way to start networking.

I doubt ANY airline would go from having zero interest in operating a service to 5 weeks after meeting them for the 1st time announcing the route. You can bet CSA were looking at that market for a while but it's a happy circumstance that they spoke at that conference.