Safety & Rules: Air Accidents and Incidents discussions

[Len Fish]

The runway length at Muan is 2800m but from the video it was certainly going at a rate of knots when it hit the wall. Unfortunately the video doesn’t show where the aircraft first touched down on the runway so we can’t determine if the runway was long enough for a wheels up landing. Also it may have been an over speed landing due to hydraulic problems. Looking at the map of the region there appears to be no other nearby longer runway available at any other airport where the pilot could have diverted to. What an impossible position for a pilot to be in. RIP to all those who lost their lives.

 

[quik123]

It seems it hit the localiser before the wall as this was mounted on top of an earth bank! What a bizarre structure to place so close to the end of a runway.

 

[lbaspotter]

Tragic week or what. The Jeju Air that sadly crashed this morning was a previously regular Ryanair visitor to LBA as EI-EFR.

Not forgetting both the KLM Boeing 737-800 overrun at Oslo Trop and the Air Canada Dash 8 undercarriage failure in Halifax last night

 

[White Heather]

Only an arm chair pilot here but perhaps on final approach just before the landing gear was lowered the B737 hit a flock of birds taking out 1 or both engines, panic in the cockpit due to lower speed and height, alarms going off all over the place resulting in the pilots totally forgetting about the landing gear, 737 lands on its belly and engines obviously unable to lift off? Crazy to have a wall/embankment at the end of the runway!!

All very possible. Yes, the initial undercarriage collapse reports have now changed to undercarriage not deployed although there is mention of a video showing the bird(s) strike. If so it would need to be a flock to take out both engines on approach and if that happened, it's the ultimate nightmare. IF that's what happened and the aircraft lost both engines then the crew may have opted not to deploy the undercarriage (or retract it again) as wheels down would slow the aircraft down considerably and potentially mean not reaching the airport at all.

 

[dmrodgers]

It's the same aircraft that diverted to Seoul the day before after squawking 7700 and declaring an emergency although the reasons for that are not known.

Suggestions of a bird strike with this crash, but photos showing the aircraft undercarriage collapsed and it on its belly. The two dont seem related somehow? Could a bird strike cause a catastrophic undercarriage collapse? Or did the bird strike cause an issue resulting in a heavy landing which caused the collapse? We will have to wait to find out.

Whatever, another tragic loss of life and after what seemed a good year in terms of aviation safety, the second over the Christmas period. There always seems to be something at Christmas! (Not necessarily aviation related).

Initial reports suggest that squawking 7700 was due to a medical emergency and unrelated to today's sad incident. Only when the full report comes out will we know the outcome of what happened.

 

[BCFC]

Only an armchair pilot here but perhaps on final approach just before landing gear lowered the B737 hit a flock of birds taking out 1 or both engines, panic in the cockpit due to lower speed and height, alarms going off all over the place resulting in the pilots totally forgetting about the landing gear, 737 lands on its belly and engines obviously unable to lift off? Crazy to have a wall/embankment at the end of the runway!!

I can't get over the speed that it landed at looking at the video…must be a loss of engine power as it seemed to have no reverse thrust…which it would probably wouldn't have without wheels down anyway.

 

[pilot_737]

Very tragic event.
I’ve seen a video of a bird strike through the right engine so they’ve opted to go around.
Totally my guess, but it seems they’ve then teardropped back in for an approach on the reciprocal runway. Possibly thought the other engine was failing so didn’t deploy the flaps to achieve a better glide. Then high workload has caught up with them…


Even with a hydraulic issue you can still deploy the flaps with an electrical system
The gear can be lowered by the manual extension which removes a lock pin and gravity does the rest.

 

[quik123]

I see the media are starting to question why the localiser was mounted on an earth bank.

South Korea plane crash: Why was there a wall near the runway?

An air safety expert says lives could have been saved if the "obstruction" was not there.

www.bbc.co.uk

No mention of it in the airport AIP entry. But it does tell pilots that there is only a 200m clearway at the end of the concrete (localiser is at 250m). Going to be some awful questions to answer as the speculation is bound to be that all those who died might just have survived if this hadn't been there.

 

[Bantamzen]

Very tragic event.
I’ve seen a video of a bird strike through the right engine so they’ve opted to go around.
Totally my guess, but it seems they’ve then teardropped back in for an approach on the reciprocal runway. Possibly thought the other engine was failing so didn’t deploy the flaps to achieve a better glide. Then high workload has caught up with them…


Even with a hydraulic issue you can still deploy the flaps with an electrical system
The gear can be lowered by the manual extension which removes a lock pin and gravity does the rest.

I do wonder if both engines were impacted (or perceived to be) meaning that the go-around was no longer viable? The video showing the number 2 engine spitting out smoke (and possibly something else) is quickly obscured by a structure, so we don't see what happens in the following seconds. And in such a case a loss of hydraulics, added to what would have been a very stressed and overloaded flight crew led to them having no time to run through all the checklists to try to get some flaps and the gear down manually, and having to resort to a gear-up landing. Hopefully in time the flight data and voice recorders will shed some light on what appears to have been a tragic chain of events.

Of course the survival rate may have been higher had it not been for the structure the localiser being built like a bunker instead of something that could collapse on impact, although I note that just behind is a concrete wall at the perimeter so that could have equally caused a high fatality rate. Either way my thoughts are with those who were involved and their loved ones.

 

[BHX492]

Around an hour ago a Delta/Endeavor CRJ900 crashed landed, Thankfully looks all have survived with a few with injuries at current time.

Multiple injured as plane 'flips upside down' crashing into airport runway

At least 18 people were left injured in the horror Delta Air Lines plane crash at Toronto Pearson International Airport

www.express.co.uk

 

[Aviador]

Around an hour ago a Delta/Endeavor CRJ900 crashed landed, Thankfully looks all have survived with a few with injuries at current time.

Multiple injured as plane 'flips upside down' crashing into airport runway

At least 18 people were left injured in the horror Delta Air Lines plane crash at Toronto Pearson International Airport

www.express.co.uk

They all had a miraculous escape by all accounts. It would appear from initial reports, the aircraft was landing too steeply leading to a heavy landing. If this is found to be the cause during the official investigation, it would mean the accident was avoidable. At least it ended without loss of life which is the main thing.

 

[Brum X]

What the hell happened here ??

https://twitter.com/x/status/1903851605708968375

 

[jfy1999]

United forgot to apply the brakes! I think it’s the usual thing for planes at Heathrow to line up this closely behind each other on the runway.

 

[KARFA]

uk it is fine for atc to line up a following aircraft before the one in front has been issued a takeoff clearance. at very busy airports like LHR, it is pretty much essential in order to match demand.

of course a sensible pilot will be able to vary their taxi speed to try and keep it rolling and not pile on to the runway too quickly before the previous aircraft starts their roll. getting stuck half way thro a turn is also suboptimal!

as for moving backwards, yes looks like they were not on the foot brakes.