Elmdon80slad
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- Apr 13, 2012
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- #161
Click to enlarge pics etc...
New Birmingham Airport Viewing Facility
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Elmdon80slad
Active Member
- Apr 13, 2012
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- Thread starter
- #163
Hassaan13 said:
Thats part of the airport land I believe they have purchased the land there possibly including the hotel.
Elmdon80slad
Active Member
- Apr 13, 2012
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- #164
I recieved a reply from the airport some time back it was an official pdf document, that although expressed an interesting viewpoint, they were/are not interested in any such venture as in thier eyes thet have an already suitable facility in the shape of a few benches and a couple of meters of grass, in the long stay carpark...:-(
Hassaan
Well-Known Member
- Jan 10, 2011
- 738
- 28
So they aren't really keen on the idea.
You look at how successful Manchester's is, not only locally but nationally. There are financial benefits out of an official viewing area, and it really could have been put to use on a day like today.
We'll see what other organisations have to say.
You look at how successful Manchester's is, not only locally but nationally. There are financial benefits out of an official viewing area, and it really could have been put to use on a day like today.
We'll see what other organisations have to say.
flybynightgal
New Member
Hi all, I am a new member
A new viewing area would be great. Bit of a sad time when they closed the last one when they altered the terminal.
I do remember the original viewing area at the old Elmdon, small room overlooking the runway and taxi areas. Got really hot and stuffy in there!
The next one they had was a good view, could be noisy though. But enjoyed it too. Would also be nice if they had an outdoor area. We used to sit in the car park watching, but as we do not have a car any longer, it would be good to have an open "sheltered area", don't laugh, like bus shelters with see through roofs so you could see above.
Hope that was a good debut post!
A new viewing area would be great. Bit of a sad time when they closed the last one when they altered the terminal.
I do remember the original viewing area at the old Elmdon, small room overlooking the runway and taxi areas. Got really hot and stuffy in there!
The next one they had was a good view, could be noisy though. But enjoyed it too. Would also be nice if they had an outdoor area. We used to sit in the car park watching, but as we do not have a car any longer, it would be good to have an open "sheltered area", don't laugh, like bus shelters with see through roofs so you could see above.
Hope that was a good debut post!
U
User0001
Guest
It makes you wonder what BHX's issue with a viewing area is?
Not only has MAN got the AVP, but also ample areas on the south side of the airport where viewing is accepted, and now, MAN is constructing another viewing area under the approach lights to 23R. They are building another large car park (as the car park on the apron is being brought back to aviation use), and this car park has 'an allocation of 16 car parking spaces for spotters and a viewing area. Seems MAN encourage viewing as much as possible!
Hassaan
Well-Known Member
- Jan 10, 2011
- 738
- 28
user001 said:
They would probably say something like there are already numerous viewing areas available such as the Long Stay Car Park and Sheldon Country Park. We can see that BHX is bound to become busier in the next year what with Air India having started a new long haul service, and Airblue have just announced one to start next month, and the runway extension will have opened this time next year, allowing the airport to get a little busier. It would probably benefit the airport financially as well, and possibly the city on the whole. If done right, it would become a popular tourist attraction here (a bit like Manchester's is). And would probably encourage even more activity in spotters here.
MAN is a large airport, I'm not surprised they want to encourage more viewing. However, their Runway Visitor Park (previously known as the Aviation Viewing Park) was originally opened in May 1992, and moved to its current position in May 1997. Of course, even back then, MAN was attracting more passengers than BHX now but it has become hugely popular for viewing planes.
I have no idea why people think it wouldn't work here. Of course, me and Elmdon80slad are trying our best to ensure that it happens, but as I mentioned a few times before, if we work together there's more of a chance of it happening.
U
User0001
Guest
To help you in your quest, I would consider these main points if you ever hope to encourage some form of airline or even business partnership:
1) Cost
What exactly do you want the airline/sponsor to do. Cost is a huge factor to the aviation industry (I know, Im in it). Airlines/sponsors would like to see what their potential return would be. Would it solely be through potential customers, or, would they be entitled to a percentage of the profits.
2) Relevance
Focus your time and efforts on sponsors that are likely to listen. As harsh as it sounds, don't bother with Air Canada, British Airways and the likes, this venture will be of no use or advantage from them. They do not fly from BHX, they have no flights to fill at the airport.
3) Get the airport on side
Airport security and community relations will need to support this project. Arrange meetings, present clear, concise plans. Don't just go in with 'we could do this', or 'we are not sure about that'. They will loose interest quickly. Go in with thorough 'we want this', 'we have studied that' etc. A clear thought out plan will attract far more attention
4) Do your research
Surveys, blueprints, costings, profits. Unless you have a clear, well thought plan backed with evidence, airlines/sponsors will not pay the blindest bit of attention. They get asked for sponsors day in day out, you have to be the plan that is well thought out. Think of it as a dragons den pitch:
-How many people do you expect to use the site per day
-How many staff do you need
-How will you police the site (airports love their security)
-What will the airline gain from their participation
-How much will the land cost to buy/rent (nothing is free in this world)
-What type of entry fee are you planning
-Opening times (and be realistic, it will not be a 24/7 site)
-Any future growth
-Of you have a café/aircraft displays, how will these be managed/costed
As you see, there is a lot to think about, and the above list is by no means exhaustive. There is no good just writing to an airline and saying something like 'help us with this plan'. They will not pay the blindest bit of attention and send you a generic 'thanks for your correspondence' note. I know that sounds harsh but Im being honest.
Good luck with your venture, I hope you get something to work but please please take on board the above or I can almost promise you, you will get nowhere. :good:
1) Cost
What exactly do you want the airline/sponsor to do. Cost is a huge factor to the aviation industry (I know, Im in it). Airlines/sponsors would like to see what their potential return would be. Would it solely be through potential customers, or, would they be entitled to a percentage of the profits.
2) Relevance
Focus your time and efforts on sponsors that are likely to listen. As harsh as it sounds, don't bother with Air Canada, British Airways and the likes, this venture will be of no use or advantage from them. They do not fly from BHX, they have no flights to fill at the airport.
3) Get the airport on side
Airport security and community relations will need to support this project. Arrange meetings, present clear, concise plans. Don't just go in with 'we could do this', or 'we are not sure about that'. They will loose interest quickly. Go in with thorough 'we want this', 'we have studied that' etc. A clear thought out plan will attract far more attention
4) Do your research
Surveys, blueprints, costings, profits. Unless you have a clear, well thought plan backed with evidence, airlines/sponsors will not pay the blindest bit of attention. They get asked for sponsors day in day out, you have to be the plan that is well thought out. Think of it as a dragons den pitch:
-How many people do you expect to use the site per day
-How many staff do you need
-How will you police the site (airports love their security)
-What will the airline gain from their participation
-How much will the land cost to buy/rent (nothing is free in this world)
-What type of entry fee are you planning
-Opening times (and be realistic, it will not be a 24/7 site)
-Any future growth
-Of you have a café/aircraft displays, how will these be managed/costed
As you see, there is a lot to think about, and the above list is by no means exhaustive. There is no good just writing to an airline and saying something like 'help us with this plan'. They will not pay the blindest bit of attention and send you a generic 'thanks for your correspondence' note. I know that sounds harsh but Im being honest.
Good luck with your venture, I hope you get something to work but please please take on board the above or I can almost promise you, you will get nowhere. :good:
U
User0001
Guest
Also, an extra thought, why not write to the AVP at MAN to arrange a meeting with the bigwigs of the site?
Find out from them just what it takes to run a site like this, as seen as it is the site you want to emulate.
They may not give that sort of information away freely, but, if you don't ask you don't get and if they agree to help with info, would be the best help in your plan. You could even 'twin' the sites for extra advertising and management skills!
Find out from them just what it takes to run a site like this, as seen as it is the site you want to emulate.
They may not give that sort of information away freely, but, if you don't ask you don't get and if they agree to help with info, would be the best help in your plan. You could even 'twin' the sites for extra advertising and management skills!
- Moderator
- #173
Good advice above, a good solid business plan is needed in any arena when seeking investment. Also a great idea about contacting MAN AVP for some priceless feedback.
F.A.O. Elmdon80'slad RE: our PM's
View towards the terminals with Diamond House poking above the trees which would need to be chopped.
The view further south, the excavation in the distance is the new parallel taxiway.
Looking south to where the new threshold will roughly be, shame about the noise bund when it's complete the height of any potential platforms would need to be calculated.
I'll try and have a walk round on a nicer day and get some clearer pictures.
F.A.O. Elmdon80'slad RE: our PM's
View towards the terminals with Diamond House poking above the trees which would need to be chopped.
The view further south, the excavation in the distance is the new parallel taxiway.
Looking south to where the new threshold will roughly be, shame about the noise bund when it's complete the height of any potential platforms would need to be calculated.
I'll try and have a walk round on a nicer day and get some clearer pictures.
Elmdon80slad
Active Member
- Apr 13, 2012
- 396
- 63
- Thread starter
- #174
Thanks ray, as per pm's lots of potential there and with the trees cut/high enough viewing facilities, I could see great views and a brill atmosphere for all.
- Moderator
- #175
flybynightgal said:Hi all, I am a new member
A new viewing area would be great. Bit of a sad time when they closed the last one when they altered the terminal.
I do remember the original viewing area at the old Elmdon, small room overlooking the runway and taxi areas. Got really hot and stuffy in there!
The next one they had was a good view, could be noisy though. But enjoyed it too. Would also be nice if they had an outdoor area. We used to sit in the car park watching, but as we do not have a car any longer, it would be good to have an open "sheltered area", don't laugh, like bus shelters with see through roofs so you could see above.
Hope that was a good debut post!
Hi and welcome to the forum :hatsoff:
Hassaan
Well-Known Member
- Jan 10, 2011
- 738
- 28
Thanks for the advice. I've also contacted Manchester Airport themselves, to get a better idea of the costs for their venture. Of course, I'll have to get a response first.
Ray, have you had a look at the back of the TriStar hotel and the kind of views IT would provide? Would give us a better idea as to where it would actually work, and you can actually see along the runway and of course, the terminal. I thought, there's more chance of it happening if we all agree on one situation and then work on it, as at the moment I have an idea, and Elmdon08slad has another. Kind of need to combine the two I think. I visited the Manchester Viewing Park a month ago, so I know pretty much what it consists. And also looking into that email that I had sent off - about 'spotting weekends' and the like.
Ray, have you had a look at the back of the TriStar hotel and the kind of views IT would provide? Would give us a better idea as to where it would actually work, and you can actually see along the runway and of course, the terminal. I thought, there's more chance of it happening if we all agree on one situation and then work on it, as at the moment I have an idea, and Elmdon08slad has another. Kind of need to combine the two I think. I visited the Manchester Viewing Park a month ago, so I know pretty much what it consists. And also looking into that email that I had sent off - about 'spotting weekends' and the like.
Elmdon80slad
Active Member
- Apr 13, 2012
- 396
- 63
- Thread starter
- #177
Hassaan13 said:
With all respect I think we have established beyond any doubt that the ground at the back and around the tristar hotel, is not available and wont be, as it belongs to the airport and is part of their expansion plans, All other areas around the perimeter and slightly further out, have been looked into and I have contacted and had quite intensive lengthy consultations, with the owners and managers of these areas including - The Airport Board(asfar up as their manager), Birmingham Council (Leisure and Parks Department) regarding all park areas around the north and west(And around the golf course), The golf club manager, The NEC and Carpark areas via their management and including Virgin Rail.
So with my extensive enquiries and contacting everyone around the airport area, this final contact and location at the old Civil Service Grounds, (now rugby grounds) is without doubt the Only genuine and real possibility to see a vision come to life that I first posted on here as is shown on here back at post 1 over 16months ago, atleast now this has a real chance and very much at stage one ticked off...... :good:
- Moderator
- #178
It would be perfect but sadly it'll never happen for the reasons outlined above.
Hassaan
Well-Known Member
- Jan 10, 2011
- 738
- 28
A bit of a shame. You see Manchester's viewing area is popular because it is close to the taxiways/runway, and close to the action. That's kind of what we need. I'm just not too keen on it being too far away from the airport, or directly in front of the runway because the views aren't quite as 'lucrative' or special, that you wouldn't get anywhere else around the airport. There is that other spot I suggested when I started out by the fire station but that would require just too much work.
We'll just have to see what can be done.
We'll just have to see what can be done.
- Moderator
- #180
If the choice of venue has definitely been decided then some things need to be sorted before going any further.
Cost
At the moment companies are being asked to invest money but no one has any idea how much, which is the first question they will ask. I've tried to break it down, if I've forgotten anything then please feel free to add it.
Car park: The sports club has limited parking which I imagine will be for patrons only therefore more tarmac will need to be laid and marked up, I think at least three contractors should be approached for quotes.
Viewing mounds: I'm not sure bulldozing waste earth into a pile will be suitable, I imagine these will need to be professionally constructed lest one collapse after a heavy rainstorm with poor spotters perched on top. There will also need to be steps and a wooden viewing platform with at least one having a ramp to the top for disabled access. Again quotes from carpenters will be needed.
Car park ticketing: Will the car park be a ticket barrier operated or pay and display system? If so have any companies been approached with a view to them running it? If it's pay and display will an attendant will need to be employed to make regular visits to ensure payment?
Catering/ toilet facilities: I assume the sports club will be providing both and benefitting from increased sales? If so it's up to them to deal with that side of things.
Children's play equipment: Will need to be purchased, installed and have regular maintenance.
Fencing the perimeter: Not a cheap thing to do but it will stop people walking in without paying.
Maintenance: Grass needs to be cut, wood needs to be treated, potholes need to be filled, play equipment needs regular maintenance etc...who will do this and at what cost?
Advertising
For me this is a biggy. You can have the greatest product in the world but unless you can tell people about it then it's worthless, which is why companies spend huge amounts each year on advertising. I seem to remember reading that councils don't put up brown signs advertising attractions until they have a certain amount of visitors per year in which case all advertising will need to be paid for. A potential investor, spotter groups and even the airport could possibly have small adverts on their websites but if you want to get through to Joe Public a widespread and sustained campaign would be needed and that's going to cost. Flyers, T.V. ads, newspapers, shop windows, Google ad words? Until word got round a serious advertising budget would need to be worked out.
Legal Issues
A solid lease agreement would be needed with the sports club over usage of their land. It's no good spending £100k of someone else's money for them six months later to say I want you off now. A good solicitor would be needed to make sure the investment is protected for a length of time.
There is also planning permission. Solihull MBC need to be contacted for advice about this. If planning is needed it could be costly with traffic reports, environmental studies etc.
Insurance
A damn good public liability insurance policy will be required lest little Johnny fall and break his arm coming too quickly down the steps. Quotes are needed.
Health & Safety
One of the buzz phrases of the moment but one that needs to be taken very seriously. Who will carry out the H&S evaluation and risk assessments? Employing a third party will only add to the cost.
Finance
Over what period of time will an investor want their return back, are we talking a lump sum in 3-5 years, regular instalments whether the place is busy or not or will it be a percentage of the profits? How much will the landowner require? How much of the parking charges would a company take to operate the car park? After all this has been taken into consideration there needs to be enough left to pay for regular maintenance, insurance premiums, advertising etc...
Business plan
Without one nobody in their right mind will invest.
A company needs to be set up and registered with HMRC (no investor will write a £100k cheque into Mr Smiths personal account) and a solid business plan written. This should include:
The business:
How long you have been developing the idea.
Work carried out so far.
Pros and cons of the location.
What work needs to be done and quotes from contractors.
How soon can the site be open for business.
The industry
Is BHX growing or declining.
Is spotting as a hobby growing or declining.
Is there any local competition.
If so, what makes your product better.
The market
What is your target market. Include demographics of the local area.
Is it growing or declining.
What is their level of disposable income.
List any market research done, even if it's only emails to local spotters groups.
How will your prices make your business attractive.
How will your proposal meet you customers needs better than anything else out there.
Advertising
How will you get the word out there. TV, newspaper, flyers, marketing emails.
How will you ensure customers return on a regular basis.
Management
Who is running the business.
List of third parties.
Track record and relevant experience.
How much time are you prepared to put in and how much salary will you require.
Financial forecasts
How much investment will you need and in what form. Fixed interest loan etc..
A break down of exactly what the money will be used for.
Assess the risk of any stage going wrong and list a back up plan.
How much Gross income do you expect to make per person.
How much Net income do you expect to make per person
How much money will be paid to third parties. Landowners, parking companies, maintenance contracts etc.
Projected number of visitors in year one and increases for years two and three (possibly even four and five).
Profit/loss for year one and increases for years two and three (possibly even four and five).
What are contingency plans for if those projections fall short, do you have access to cash to keep the site running or will it just be closed.
How will the investor get a return. Lump sum, regular payment, percentage of profits.
How will investor increase their business, in the case of an airline how many extra customers can they expect to gain from this.
What percentage of the business will the investor own.
Any exit strategy for them and a time frame for it.
With all of the above then realistic figures need to be made.
Sorry to have rambled on, maybe some of this is irrelevant maybe there are things I have forgotten but it's just my take on it.
Cost
At the moment companies are being asked to invest money but no one has any idea how much, which is the first question they will ask. I've tried to break it down, if I've forgotten anything then please feel free to add it.
Car park: The sports club has limited parking which I imagine will be for patrons only therefore more tarmac will need to be laid and marked up, I think at least three contractors should be approached for quotes.
Viewing mounds: I'm not sure bulldozing waste earth into a pile will be suitable, I imagine these will need to be professionally constructed lest one collapse after a heavy rainstorm with poor spotters perched on top. There will also need to be steps and a wooden viewing platform with at least one having a ramp to the top for disabled access. Again quotes from carpenters will be needed.
Car park ticketing: Will the car park be a ticket barrier operated or pay and display system? If so have any companies been approached with a view to them running it? If it's pay and display will an attendant will need to be employed to make regular visits to ensure payment?
Catering/ toilet facilities: I assume the sports club will be providing both and benefitting from increased sales? If so it's up to them to deal with that side of things.
Children's play equipment: Will need to be purchased, installed and have regular maintenance.
Fencing the perimeter: Not a cheap thing to do but it will stop people walking in without paying.
Maintenance: Grass needs to be cut, wood needs to be treated, potholes need to be filled, play equipment needs regular maintenance etc...who will do this and at what cost?
Advertising
For me this is a biggy. You can have the greatest product in the world but unless you can tell people about it then it's worthless, which is why companies spend huge amounts each year on advertising. I seem to remember reading that councils don't put up brown signs advertising attractions until they have a certain amount of visitors per year in which case all advertising will need to be paid for. A potential investor, spotter groups and even the airport could possibly have small adverts on their websites but if you want to get through to Joe Public a widespread and sustained campaign would be needed and that's going to cost. Flyers, T.V. ads, newspapers, shop windows, Google ad words? Until word got round a serious advertising budget would need to be worked out.
Legal Issues
A solid lease agreement would be needed with the sports club over usage of their land. It's no good spending £100k of someone else's money for them six months later to say I want you off now. A good solicitor would be needed to make sure the investment is protected for a length of time.
There is also planning permission. Solihull MBC need to be contacted for advice about this. If planning is needed it could be costly with traffic reports, environmental studies etc.
Insurance
A damn good public liability insurance policy will be required lest little Johnny fall and break his arm coming too quickly down the steps. Quotes are needed.
Health & Safety
One of the buzz phrases of the moment but one that needs to be taken very seriously. Who will carry out the H&S evaluation and risk assessments? Employing a third party will only add to the cost.
Finance
Over what period of time will an investor want their return back, are we talking a lump sum in 3-5 years, regular instalments whether the place is busy or not or will it be a percentage of the profits? How much will the landowner require? How much of the parking charges would a company take to operate the car park? After all this has been taken into consideration there needs to be enough left to pay for regular maintenance, insurance premiums, advertising etc...
Business plan
Without one nobody in their right mind will invest.
A company needs to be set up and registered with HMRC (no investor will write a £100k cheque into Mr Smiths personal account) and a solid business plan written. This should include:
The business:
How long you have been developing the idea.
Work carried out so far.
Pros and cons of the location.
What work needs to be done and quotes from contractors.
How soon can the site be open for business.
The industry
Is BHX growing or declining.
Is spotting as a hobby growing or declining.
Is there any local competition.
If so, what makes your product better.
The market
What is your target market. Include demographics of the local area.
Is it growing or declining.
What is their level of disposable income.
List any market research done, even if it's only emails to local spotters groups.
How will your prices make your business attractive.
How will your proposal meet you customers needs better than anything else out there.
Advertising
How will you get the word out there. TV, newspaper, flyers, marketing emails.
How will you ensure customers return on a regular basis.
Management
Who is running the business.
List of third parties.
Track record and relevant experience.
How much time are you prepared to put in and how much salary will you require.
Financial forecasts
How much investment will you need and in what form. Fixed interest loan etc..
A break down of exactly what the money will be used for.
Assess the risk of any stage going wrong and list a back up plan.
How much Gross income do you expect to make per person.
How much Net income do you expect to make per person
How much money will be paid to third parties. Landowners, parking companies, maintenance contracts etc.
Projected number of visitors in year one and increases for years two and three (possibly even four and five).
Profit/loss for year one and increases for years two and three (possibly even four and five).
What are contingency plans for if those projections fall short, do you have access to cash to keep the site running or will it just be closed.
How will the investor get a return. Lump sum, regular payment, percentage of profits.
How will investor increase their business, in the case of an airline how many extra customers can they expect to gain from this.
What percentage of the business will the investor own.
Any exit strategy for them and a time frame for it.
With all of the above then realistic figures need to be made.
Sorry to have rambled on, maybe some of this is irrelevant maybe there are things I have forgotten but it's just my take on it.
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