Route Development & Rumours

[a300boy]

He is the promotional faco of the airport so he has to be positive !
However I have decided to be the same from now on and believe everything positive and ignore anything negative to cheer myself up and stop being a grumpy old man ! This has nothing to do with the fact my wife tells me that is what I have become.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

The rail link at Prestwick Airport didn't stop that airport falling from nearly 2.5 passengers a year to the current 600,000 in the past few years. Cardiff Airport also has a rail link of sorts that requires a short shuttle bus ride (about a mile) to the airport terminal but that was not enough to save CWL plunging from 2 mppa to 1 mppa since 2008, although it is now beginning to recover.

Even Southampton with a rail station at the airport and very handy as an outer airport for the London stockbroker belt has failed to return to its 2 mppa of circa 2008, with annual passenger numbers stubbornly remaining in the 1.7-1.8 mppa bracket for several years - currently 1.766.

Conversely somewhere like Bristol Airport has seen annual passenger growth all this century except for one year - 2009 - without a rail link. Instead it has a 24-hour bus link with dedicated and adapted vehicles operated for the airport every few minutes for much of the day between main city rail station and airport. The airport is shown as a 'station' in the rail booking timetables with through rail tickets available from/to anywhere in the country with the last (or first) leg on the bus, a 25-minute journey. Similar through tickets are available via the airport bus on National Express and the local Bristol bus services.

I'm not knocking the idea of airport rail stations. I've used many and they are very handy but they are not necessarily a panacea when it comes to substantially increasing passenger traffic, especially at UK regional airports. Melbourne Tullamarine with over 30 million passengers a year has no rail link, nor even a tram link (in a city with one of the most extensive tram networks in the world).

 

[leedslad]

I think a parkway is simply too much faff. Firstly the current services run only from Leeds and Harrogate so a change of train is required at Leeds as a minimum. Plus not that regular? On its own not so bad but then factor in a change to bus at the parkway and it all starts getting a bit much...

Imagine lugging your 20kg case plus family in toe from home to local station, then change trains in Leeds then change to bus at parkway. Then bank on all connections running to time.

 

[Bigman]

Would be the same argument at Liverpool South Parkway, East Midlands Parkway, Luton Airport Parkway. Even the Tyne & Wear Metro.. Quite an uphill ramp there when you get off the Metro, which is not ideal with heavy cases. The Harrogate-Leeds frequency is to be doubled in the next few years, and there is nothing to say that some of these trains might not be extended to Bradford/Knottingley/Selby etc.

 

[Britannia94]

Shame we don't have the likes of national express operating coaches into the airport on a regular basis from places such as Hull, Grimbsy, Sheffield Etc to allow more connections to the airport.

 

[White Heather]

Like airforced I belive a direct rail link is the only truly viable option so far as the airport is concerned.

If a parkway can be used by local commuters it may still prove popular but fewer airport passengers would take up the option.

Well it isn't viable at all as heavy rail has effectively been discounted. The only option is a tram train and the costs will be prohibitive. I sense a real change of tone from LBA on this and suspect that the realisation is that a parkway station is the only thing we are ever likely to have - and financially it becomes far more viable if linked to a park and ride scheme . It would be very possible to build the parkway station and hav it ready by the time the road was built (assuming Option A), and then tender for the road scheme to include construction of the park and ride - which is cheaper than doing the two separately. The whole thing could be completed by 2022, and all integrated. Not a chance of that happening in those timescales for a tram train system.

 

[rmac]

In Scotland the train/airport link is seen as viable and important, for instance Edinburgh now has the tram direct into the airport, but now a train/tram interchange is currently being built to allow passengers from Fife, Dundee, Aberdeen to connect directly to the airport by tram in a few minutes. Aberdeen has its Dyce Station linked by bus in about 10minute journey time.(Jet Connect80)
The Glasgow rail link is being reconsidered and Prestwick airport station is still useful, although Prestwick traffic has declined but that is nothing to do with how popular the train is. Prestwick also has a limited-stop express bus service from Glasgow to Ayr that stops at the airport.

 

[rmac]

Further to the above I also checked that Inverness airport is planning an airport rail station too. Meaning that possibly all main airports in Scotland will have a rail link either with shuttle bus or tram.

 

[Bhowani]

Ah - more loose facts about DSA were in the Yorkshire Post this morning! HALF AN HOUR from Sheffield to DSA claimed - my eye and Peggy Martin. Website show 1.59 hours on the bus via Donaster. We have 2 "Tigers" which get you from Leeds and Bradford in half that time - I know I use them as well as the Otley TLC bus which starts 100 yards from Bhowani Towers.

Facts, please, DSA PR machine!

 

[whoshotjimmi]

The rail link at Prestwick Airport didn't stop that airport falling from nearly 2.5 passengers a year to the current 600,000 in the past few years. Cardiff Airport also has a rail link of sorts that requires a short shuttle bus ride (about a mile) to the airport terminal but that was not enough to save CWL plunging from 2 mppa to 1 mppa since 2008, although it is now beginning to recover.

Even Southampton with a rail station at the airport and very handy as an outer airport for the London stockbroker belt has failed to return to its 2 mppa of circa 2008, with annual passenger numbers stubbornly remaining in the 1.7-1.8 mppa bracket for several years - currently 1.766.

Conversely somewhere like Bristol Airport has seen annual passenger growth all this century except for one year - 2009 - without a rail link. Instead it has a 24-hour bus link with dedicated and adapted vehicles operated for the airport every few minutes for much of the day between main city rail station and airport. The airport is shown as a 'station' in the rail booking timetables with through rail tickets available from/to anywhere in the country with the last (or first) leg on the bus, a 25-minute journey. Similar through tickets are available via the airport bus on National Express and the local Bristol bus services.

I'm not knocking the idea of airport rail stations. I've used many and they are very handy but they are not necessarily a panacea when it comes to substantially increasing passenger traffic, especially at UK regional airports. Melbourne Tullamarine with over 30 million passengers a year has no rail link, nor even a tram link (in a city with one of the most extensive tram networks in the world).

I love a good debate (as I am sure you have noticed) and the debate surrounding surface access is one that I am particularly interested in. I am sure I will incur the wrath of Lbaspotter for not discussing this in the "Road, rail and surface access" thread but, as access is so closely linked to route development, I think it is a perfectly reasonable place to discuss the point.

It is worth mentioning that the above airports had issues that were completely unrelated to surface access. For example, Prestwick was the de facto home of Ryanair in Scotland until the big boys let them in to play. Once Glasgow and Edinburgh were on board, Prestwick was left to rot. It was a similar story at Cardiff where the demise of BMI Baby left a hole that nobody was prepared to fill - certainly not EasyJet and Ryanair who were already well sorted at Bristol. Southampton may well have rail links but so does the nearby - and much larger - Gatwick, and to more places too. When it comes to Bristol, it is worth noting that much of South West England and Wales is served by this airport and growth has largely been despite the connectivity rather than because of it due to a distinct lack of alternatives in that region. However, the connectivity that exists will certainly not adversely affect matters and may help to pull people away from the outer edges of the Birmingham and Heathrow catchment.

When you then look at other airports, such as Liverpool and Newcastle yes, the links might be a little bit more spurious BUT they become viable alternatives as a result of the links being available. There have been a number of occasions when I have chosen Liverpool because Liverpool South Parkway makes it easier. I have chosen Newcastle later in the year because of the connectivity. In both cases, I chose them over Manchester, where the fare was only slightly higher and the tipping point was the connectivity. Had the connections not been available, I would have chosen Manchester.

The we look at Leeds. As has been rightly pointed out, any potential parkway station would sit on the Harrogate line and necessitate a change at Leeds. Liverpool benefits here as the station sits on the main line between Liverpool and Manchester/Birmingham/Preston (and, therefore Leeds/Sheffield), where most trains to Liverpool will pass through. The fact that passengers do not have to change will make it more attractive than having to change half way there as would be required in Leeds.

However, it is impossible to say that just because something works at one location, it will automatically work at another. What it is possible to say is that that better connectivity makes an airport more attractive which, in turn, means more passengers will choose it which means, in turn, services will be increased. Providing the whole thing is managed correctly, a good selection of airlines and routes are available and the main purpose of the airport is not simply to provide a base whilst airlines fight other airports for a better deal, improved connectivity is always going to be a positive thing.

What we absolutely must not do is allow talk of a rail link to become a politically motivated diversion tactic from other necessary improvements in the area. I note how local councillors have suddenly jumped on the train (pun intended) when it comes to a rail link and discuss it as an alternative to a new road link. The local area needs both of these things to help alleviate congestion and the airport needs both of these things in order to develop facilities and its route network.

I THINK I managaed to keep that on topic....

 

[michael]

I can see the merits of a rail link of some type for LBA for those who live within easy reach of the rail network but for folk like me who live up in the Dales a rail link is never going to be an option except in the most desperate of circumstances. To explain what I mean, by car I can be at LBA in 45 minutes, I can be at MAN in 1hr 20minutes, even LPL in 1hr 40 minutes. For me to travel to any of these airports by rail I have a 20 minute car journey to my nearest rail station - Skipton. From there it's 40 minutes to Leeds station. From there I'd either have to come back on myself to LBA or set off on my travels over the pennines to MAN or LPL. I'm sorry but it isn't going to happen. I do use the train sometimes to go shopping in Leeds, but to do that I'm not coming back on myself! Oh, and by the way, buses??? - if I'm going to be sat in a bus then I might as well be sat in my car so I'm sorry but from my perspective its the car or the car. Horses for courses and all that!!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

whoshotjimmi said:

It is worth mentioning that the above airports had issues that were completely unrelated to surface access.

Indeed they did but that is part of the point I was making. A good rail link is not an automatic recipe for substantial airport passenger expansion; neither is a lack of one necessarily a brake on progress. Other factors can come into play as you have pointed out.

 

[lbaspotter]

I am sure I will incur the wrath of Lbaspotter for not discussing this in the "Road, rail and surface access" thread

Nah as I've got nothing to either say or add whoshotjimmi. So please feel fee to carry on this discussion

 

[Bigman]

It's just a shame that they never extended the M65 from Colne across the Wharfe Valley to join the A1. That would certainly have sorted the road access out!!!

 

[Pat]

I always understood the M65 was to be called the Aire Valley motorway

 

[ls27]

The Aire Valley trunk road round Keighley is on the alignment of what was going to be the M65 which was if I remember rightly was going to go to Kendal to replace the A65 (the East of Doncaster - Kendal Trunk Road

 

[lbaspotter]

Keep hearing Lots of rumours floating around regards new routes been in the pipeline from LBA at the moment.

All very interesting, Let's hope we managed to bag some of them!

 

[yorkie40]

Keep hearing Lots of rumours floating around regards new routes been in the pipeline from LBA at the moment.

All very interesting, Let's hope we managed to bag some of them!

Come on then lbaspotter let's hear what you'd heard

 

[lbaspotter]

1 or 2 of them I will have to refine from doing so publicly as I'll be bound and gagged. But will tell you at least the following rumours which are commonly known around some of us spotters whom gather around LBA on a weekend

Iberia Express = Madrid.
British Airways = Night Stopper on Heathrow
Vueling = To grow next Summer.

The above are all said to be part of a group deal with IAG wither its true or not I dont know. Same can be said for others rumours which include:

A German Airline - to an Unnamed German destination
Ryanair = Add 4th & possibly 5th based B738.
Monarch = To base 1x A320 & 1x A321 next summer 2017.
Thomas Cook = To return with based aircraft in 2018 as testing market in 17 with MON.

Will send you a PM regards others Yorkie40

Anyone else heard anything that might add to the above???

 

[mdobuk21]

hi lbaspotter , could you pm myself please as I too am intrigued on the rumours going around!

Cheers
Mark