Loganair

[Finger66]

That decision seems to me to be a reaction to the Eastern Airlines Flybe franchise in Scotland. A case of well your moving into our territory and so we'll put our tanks on your lawn!

Two things here.
To compete effectively on a route such as MME - ABZ both carriers will have to offer some lower fares which ultimately will affect yield. Wasnt eventual yield a reason for pulling LBA - GLA? So I fail to see what benefit there is in competing on a route as opposed to one they had to themselves and were turning around.
The other point is, and has possibly been hinted at in JH's email is that the decision to pull LBA - GLA could be a subtle ploy to try and encourage LBA management to help reduce charges at LBA. As we know he is a big fan of LBA, but does have a good business brain and mentioned said hinderances. All adds to the power of any future negotiations!

 

[White Heather]

On this subject, just to update you, I did as promised write to LBA with regard to the comments made by JH and specifically relating to the handling agent charges and I am pleased to say that despite being on holiday abroad, my email was forwarded to David Laws and he has sent me a detailed and helpful reply. I find the fact he has done so in his own time and whilst abroad extremely encouraging. However, the content of his response may included information that is sensitive or commercial in confidence, so I have asked if he can clarify how much of what he has said (if any) I can relay on to you guys here. What I will say is that there are two sides to every story, so bear that in mind!

 

[Finger66]

This sounds like we have a more open, honest and realistic new management team. JH is a relatively good "friend" though perhaps something isn't quite ringing true just yet. Loganair have made some strange decisions like competing with T3 on MME - ABZ so really not sure of any logic or current arguments. What I will say is "the truth will always out" and I hope White Heather has the opportunity to post so. That said, remember there are two sides to every story and each relevant party will put their own slant on this so view any expressed opinions with a very open mind!

 

[imagineif]

This regional air route war is not good for the consumer and not good for the regional airports either. All this territory marking will end up in one big mess.

Nobody has taken interest in MME for almost a decade now and suddenly 'Scotlands airline' launches MME-NWI? and goes head to head with Eastern on the ABZ route as retaliation.

They will dilute the market, operate at near losses just to force the competition off the route and then end up pulling the routes completely. Leaving the consumer and airport without a service. We saw this game with Eastern and Flybe at LBA a few times and its very damaging.

 

[lbaspotter]

So no wonder Loganair pulled LBA - GLA, especially with whats about to happen over the hill next month..

Loganair now with its new British Airways codeshare are going to increase there existing MAN-GLA service from 4x daily Saab 2000 to 6x Daily mix of Saab 2000 & Saab 340. This was due to be going up against Flybe/Eastern whom were set to operate MAN-GLA service from 4x daily using BAe Jetstream 41. But looks like that decsion has been change as all 4x daily flights are now showing to be upgraded to Saab 2000.

How long can GLA-MAN sustain 10x daily Saab flights? Someone will lose!

 

[White Heather]

It seems to me that common sense is going out of the window here with Loganair taking on Flybe/Eastern wherever they can just for the hell of it - and as you say lbaspotter, someone will lose for sure. Taking on Flybe/Eastern at both MAN and at Teesside whilst leaving the this entire region without a link to Glasgow seems crazy especially given the recent increases in passenger numbers on the LBA-GLA route. The reasons given by Loganair for pulling the route at such short notice seemed dubious to me - and particularly so given that little notice was given to either LBA or GLA airport management either. I know that both airports did all they could to encourage the route to continue but without any success and certainly the LBA MD was as surprised as anyone when they announced they were pulling off the route just 2 weeks later.

 

[Finger66]

Mmmmmmm. So let's have a look at the facts around the three carriers involved:
A reinvented independent carrier that has often struggled when independent.
A carrier that is suffering major reliability issues.
A carrier that was just starting to turn the corner.
Is it therefore optimistic just To expect oNly on ne casualty?
How much spare cash have Stobart Air got that might enable them to get hold of some very cheap pickings?
UK domestic super carrier here we come perhaps!

 

[Bigman]

They might both end up going belly up...in which case Finger66 can come in with a new start up airline and cash in on their dropped routes.

 

[Finger66]

So Loganair are claiming first blood on the Highland and Islands route, albeit with not a great LF. The Flybe/Eastern LF is apparently even worse. This brings me back to the same previously asked question. Why on earth go compete head to head with a rival on some very thinly populated routes that only end up being diluted further when there remains an unserved route that you can have to yourself where you are steadily growing numbers? Of course I refer to LBA GLA here. Something is going to have to give in the Highlands, plus probably MAN GLA and also MME ABZ where there is serious over capacity. Not saying this will be a return to LBA for LM but an overall situation to keep an eye on

 

[Finger66]

Just reading on the dried fruit forum that pax figures on the MME to ABZ are down for at least the 2nd month in a row. This brings me back to the same question: why on earth have LM gone head to head with T3 on a declining route which must be costing them far more to operate than what was a developing LBA - GLA route? Unless of course there was a deal along the lines of BE at DSA. Come on LM, or even T3/BE, lets get LBA - GLA back up and runing! Come on LBA management, lets do something to encourage this to happen!

 

[White Heather]

Just reading on the dried fruit forum that pax figures on the MME to ABZ are down for at least the 2nd month in a row. This brings me back to the same question: why on earth have LM gone head to head with T3 on a declining route which must be costing them far more to operate than what was a developing LBA - GLA route? Unless of course there was a deal along the lines of BE at DSA. Come on LM, or even T3/BE, lets get LBA - GLA back up and runing! Come on LBA management, lets do something to encourage this to happen!

I think I can give you absolute assurance that LBA management are doing all they can to find an operator for the LBA to Glasgow route. Not forgetting also that Glasgow airport management were equally surprised the route was dropped and are equally keen to see it re-instated. So if it doesn't happen, we can't lay the blame at LBA managements door alone.

 

[a300boy]

And we all want it back too !

 

[Finger66]

Yes fair comment around GLA management. Let's hope we get some positive news soon then

 

[Starflyer]

WhiteHeather, I saw one of the Glasgow management recently. They were not surprised at all that LBA-GLA had been closed as it was stated that they'd known for some time that the route was on a sticky wicket. They would be keen to see it reinstated and saw the best prospect as some Flybe & Eastern combination but were less than confident that it would return

 

[White Heather]

WhiteHeather, I saw one of the Glasgow management recently. They were not surprised at all that LBA-GLA had been closed as it was stated that they'd known for some time that the route was on a sticky wicket. They would be keen to see it reinstated and saw the best prospect as some Flybe & Eastern combination but were less than confident that it would return

I think their surprise stemmed from the fact that Loganair had given no indication they were about to do a U turn, having previously said they were going to develop the route (and possibly others). Both airports were, as I was told, given short notice and the route's passenger numbers had been improving, despite the poor reliability on the route. I tend to think myself that if we have been unable to get EDI back after all this time, we will also struggle to get GLA, despite the onward links to the Highlands and Islands. So few airlines seem to operate the right equipment for these routes. Bring back the Shorts 360!!

 

[tleeds]

It’s amazing how things have changed. Rail really is a long slog up north into Scotland.
Remember the days of multiple Scotland flights with the BMI EMB’s too! Perfect aircraft for those routes also!

 

[Britannia94]

It would be nice if we regained the Glasgow route but, from personal experience it’s too costly compared to train. When I looked at bpoking at the beggining of this year the return fare was just shy of £140 compared the train which was £19 return, fair enough the train takes four hours but I’d rather do that and go via the settle to Carlisle route, which is wonderful scenic route, than pay to fly. But hey that’s my own preference seeing as I am cost conscious person.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

It would be nice if we regained the Glasgow route but, from personal experience it’s too costly compared to train. When I looked at bpoking at the beggining of this year the return fare was just shy of £140 compared the train which was £19 return, fair enough the train takes four hours but I’d rather do that and go via the settle to Carlisle route, which is wonderful scenic route, than pay to fly. But hey that’s my own preference seeing as I am cost conscious person.

I think point to point wouldn't be that different in overall journey time and it would be broadly similar whatever mode of transport was used. Normally, this would be a massive bonus for a domestic flight of this length because other means of transport are often quicker. With that and the various connections to the highlands and islands in mind, it's a surprise that it wasn't more successful. However, you mention the cost. The Loganair/Flybe franchise was SO expensive, it eradicated all the potential that route had. There were many times that I looked at flying up there but the cost was just ludicrous. If, by some miracle, the route does return, it needs to come back with a much more attractive fare structure. £140 return on a flight that short with a no frills airline is not going to encourage people out of their car or away from some excellent deals on the train.

Sadly, I don't think any form of Flybe franchise is the right way to go. Just look at some of the eye-watering fares on the Southampton route over the next few weeks. It's disgusting, to put it mildly. Particularly when you compare it to the fares available from MAN. Whatever the reason may be, you pay a premium to fly from LBA on many routes and Flybe holding these franchises pushes the price up further because they strip away the competition. I bet any sum of money that if you went up to someone in the street and said, "Would you like to pay £140 return for a four hour journey to Glasgow or £19 return for a four hour journey to Glasgow?" every single one of them would pick £19.

 

[lbaspotter]

Well we all wondered how long the 10x daily Manchester-Glasgow route battle between Loganair & Flybe/Eastern would last, Well breaking news is that it looks like the all seen common sense at long last as Loganair is stopping its service as of January 19th 2018 whilst Flybe/Eastern will stop its daily services from Sumburgh to Glasgow, Aberdeen and Edinburgh.

Wonder if the be any chance of Loganair or Flybe/Eastern reinstating the Leeds-Glasgow route now what with them all freeing up aircraft??

 

[Jerry]

Well we all wondered how long the 10x daily Manchester-Glasgow route battle between Loganair/Flybe/Eastern would last, Well breaking news it looks like the all seen common sense as Loganair is stopping its service as of January 19th 2018 whilst Flybe/Eastern will stop its daily services from Sumburgh to Glasgow, Aberdeen and Edinburgh.

Wonder if the be any chance of Loganair or Flybe/Eastern reinstating the Leeds-Glasgow route now what with them all freeing up aircraft??

I believe the E170 will be operating ABZ-LCY and ABZ-BHD and ABZ-MAN on the weekends and the ABZ-LBA-SOU will be upgraded to a Saab 2000 instead of a J41 operating it now i believe.