Air Traffic, ILS & Navigation Aids

[White Heather]

Re: Air Traffic Routings

I cannot remember if I mentioned this before pending the Consultative Committee minutes being published, but in the New Year it is likely that LBA will be participating in trials to introduce amended flightpaths around the airport. They have already introduced a steeper and un-broken climb out following take off at both ends (not sure if anyone has noticed, but they have and they no longer level out for a while shortly after take off).

However, they are planning to introduce a departure routing off runway 32 which, for flights heading to the European Continent (ie Amsterdam, Dusseldorf, and all stops down as far as Cyprus), flights will depart 32, turn RIGHT over Wharfedale and then fly down wind roughly parallel with the runway but to the East. They will then route as normal towards the coast as they do now. All flights will remain this side of the A1 and away from the military flying zone.

The trial will last between 60 and 90 days and will involve just one airline.

At the same time they will be looking to trial Continuous Descent arrivals, so flights will effectively be gliding all the way down to touch down without the frequent levelling out which necessitates throttling up engines, burning more fuel and of course increasing noise and pollution. To do this a flight heading for LBA would be commencing descent somewhere to the North of London if routing that way.

All signs of things to come, but it will be nice to see departing aircraft out to the East of Leeds instead of everything routing round to the West. We already have arrivals on 14 coming in that way, so this new routing will simply mean that flights operate both ways in that area, just for a limited period. There are no dates know as yet for this and no doubt there will be some consultation, although it is only a trial for a limited period and for specific flights. It will NOT affect flights heading to Spain or France.

There will also be two departure corridors after turning towards the West following take off - one for props and one for Jets. This will enable Jets to take off sooner after a prop and not catch it up as they will be on separate flight paths running parallel to each other.

If I get any more information after the December meeting I will provide an update.

 

[channex 757]

Re: Air Traffic Routings

I cannot remember if I mentioned this before pending the Consultative Committee minutes being published, but in the New Year it is likely that LBA will be participating in trials to introduce amended flightpaths around the airport. They have already introduced a steeper and un-broken climb out following take off at both ends (not sure if anyone has noticed, but they have and they no longer level out for a while shortly after take off).

However, they are planning to introduce a departure routing off runway 32 which, for flights heading to the European Continent (ie Amsterdam, Dusseldorf, and all stops down as far as Cyprus), flights will depart 32, turn RIGHT over Wharfedale and then fly down wind roughly parallel with the runway but to the East. They will then route as normal towards the coast as they do now. All flights will remain this side of the A1 and away from the military flying zone.

The trial will last between 60 and 90 days and will involve just one airline.

At the same time they will be looking to trial Continuous Descent arrivals, so flights will effectively be gliding all the way down to touch down without the frequent levelling out which necessitates throttling up engines, burning more fuel and of course increasing noise and pollution. To do this a flight heading for LBA would be commencing descent somewhere to the North of London if routing that way.

All signs of things to come, but it will be nice to see departing aircraft out to the East of Leeds instead of everything routing round to the West. We already have arrivals on 14 coming in that way, so this new routing will simply mean that flights operate both ways in that area, just for a limited period. There are no dates know as yet for this and no doubt there will be some consultation, although it is only a trial for a limited period and for specific flights. It will NOT affect flights heading to Spain or France.

There will also be two departure corridors after turning towards the West following take off - one for props and one for Jets. This will enable Jets to take off sooner after a prop and not catch it up as they will be on separate flight paths running parallel to each other.

If I get any more information after the December meeting I will provide an update.

I wonder what the residents of Harrogate will think of the new departure routing as with it roughly been 10nm away from LBA, they will surely mean an increase in noise for them

 

[Aviador]

I actually think the East will provide a less densely populated departure route and in any case, varying between the two routes will offer longer periods between flights for those already affected by aircraft noise. It will (or should) offer better use of the airspace the airport has.

 

[a300boy]

With only 25 flights today, if they did the trial today even the noise protesters would get bored waiting for the next departure.

 

[channex 757]

I actually think the East will provide a less densely populated departure route and in any case, varying between the two routes will offer longer periods between flights for those already affected by aircraft noise. It will (or should) offer better use of the airspace the airport has.

Yep it certainly is less densly populated to the North/East as on the current route, there is Shipley, Bradford, Dewsbury, Wakefield to fly over compared to Harrogate and Wetherby to the North/East which could easily be avoided.

 

[White Heather]

I don't think the aircraft will ever reach Harrogate. They are most likely to turn right having cleared the 'gate' between Menston and Burley in Wharfedale and will then turn right to follow a line roughly between Menwith Hill and Otley, so following the line of the Wharfe Valley down towards Harewood then right again down towards the M62, whilst climbing the whole time. I would be very surprised indeed if anything got as far North as Harrogate and the population density along the entire route is very low.

 

[Aviador]

Hi White Heather, If they become available would it be possible to see the route maps?

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Not sure I follow this, will they overfly Otley or fly to the north, with their flight path more closely following the washburn valley than that of the wharfe?

I am a little concerned that by altering the flight path the airport will antagonise a whole new local communities, such as Otley for example. Areas where there has previously been little vocal oppostion.

 

[Aviador]

I would say straight ahead until 3 DME then right turn which would see aircraft pass just East of Weeton and head South East before Lindley Wood reservoir. I imagine by that point the aircraft would reach an altitude noise would be reduced anyway before heading over East Leeds towards the M62.

[googlemap]https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=urban+map+leeds&ie=UTF-8&ei=3BSOUuXRM-G_0QXZkID4DA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg[/googlemap]

 

[White Heather]

I understand the routing would be very much the same as is used now for inbound flights on to 14, so they would not go anywhere near Otley. After take off they would pass between Burley in Wharfedale and Menston as they do now, but then turn right instead of left. Noise levels in that area would be no different. That would take them between Burley in Wharfedale and Ilkley, heading up towards the moors to the NW of the Washburn Valley. They would continue on a right turn to fly to the SE, probably crossing the Washburn Valley at right angles. By this time they would already be at a fair height as this is a continual climb with no levelling off. When you look on a map this routing overflies very few residential areas. By the time they get back towards the Leeds area, probably near Harewood, they will be so high as to cause no real nuisance at all. Personally, I can't see why they didn't do it years ago, but the issue has always been that they cannot get too close to the military flying zone. As we all know, there is far less of that now than in the past, but there is still the area around Linton on Ouse to avoid.

Aviador will keep a look out but there are no maps now. Whether they will be issued when this is purely a short term trial, I don't know. No doubt there will be the odd village or farmer that complains when they see aircraft over them heading in the opposite direction to normal, but this will drastically reduce the noise pollution over the urban areas if adopted in the long term. In summer particularly there are many routes that could operate this routing off 32. I hope that the trial goes ahead, is successful and becomes the norm.

 

[channex 757]

Is there any update on the plan to use the new departure routings? Do we know if they are still going to go ahead and if they are, when?

Thanks

 

[White Heather]

As of the December consultative meeting, LBA were still in discussions with the CAA over their proposals, which of course have to be shown to be workable and safe before approval can be given. LBA have given no dates but I got the impression the intention was to trial it over the summer. We do know that only one airline will operate the new routes, but all of this is IF approval is given. That is by no means certain. Hope that helps

 

[The Pole]

Has the 14 ILS be repaired yet?

 

[lbaspotter]

Has the 14 ILS be repaired yet?

Yeah the NOTAM regarding the Runway 14 ILS Gildepath has been updated this morning. Looks like it wont be back in atcion until at least early November now..

C4340/14: Leeds Bradford: Glide path (ILS) unserviceable
Q) EGTT/QIGAS/I/NBO/A/000/999/5352N00140W005
ILS GLIDEPATH RUNWAY 14 OUT OF SERVICE ILS APPROACH RUNWAY 14
RESTRICTED TO LOCALISER DME ONLY
FROM: 20 Aug 2014 10:40 GMT (11:40 BST) TO: 01 Nov 2014 00:59 GMT

Also see a new NOTAM has appeared regarding extra overnight aircraft parking stands been made available.

C4011/14: Leeds Bradford: Apron : miscellaneous plain language
Q) EGTT/QMNXX/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5352N00140W005
DURING PEAK PERIODS AND OVERNIGHT ADDITIONAL PARKING AREAS MAY
BE USED ON THE NORTHSIDE APRON, DESIGNATED AS FOLLOWS:-
AP1: ON TWY ALPHA ABM STAND 18L/18R FACING EAST
AP2: ON TWY ALPHA ABM STAND 17 FACING EAST
NP1: NOSE IN THE NECK OF N4 FACING SOUTH
NP2: NOSE IN THE NECK OF N3 FACING WEST
NP3: NOSE BETWEEN STANDS 21 AND 22 FACING SOUTH EAST
ALL ACFT PARKING USING ONE OF THE ABOVE ADDITIONAL PARKING STANDS
WILL TAXI UNDER THEIR OWN POWER BEFORE SHUTTING DOWN WITH THEIR
NOSEWHEEL ON THE DESIGNATED SPOT, AS DIRECTED BY THE MARSHALLER.
FROM: 01 Aug 2014 13:28 GMT (14:28 BST) TO: 30 Sep 2014 23:59 GMT (01 Oct 00:59 BST)

 

[The Pole]

why so long from install to calibration?

 

[White Heather]

I suppose that will be down the CAA. I would think that LBA will need to book dates for the CAA to calibrate the ILS and will have to wait for them to be available to do so. If any changes are required then I guess that they will have to come back on another date. Perhaps the date given is allowing sufficient time for the whole process in a worst case scenario. If it is completed sooner then they can always bring it into service and issue another NOTAM.

Interesting that more 'temporary ' stands are being brought into use! I wonder why???

 

[Lamix1W]

They aren't additional temporary stands, they are the same extra parking slots we've been using for months. Look a bit odd but dies what it says on the tin

 

[Aviador]

There's been a crane on - site this afternoon erecting the new ILS mast. Shouldn't be too long to wait now before the lLS is operational again.

 

[yorkshire]

lets hope that pilot who crashed his plane in to the ils is no longer flying after the damage he did. We dont wont this to happen again!!

 

[Allaboutthebirds]

lets hope that pilot who crashed his plane in to the ils is no longer flying after the damage he did. We dont wont this to happen again!!

How ridiculous. It was his first solo flight. Experienced captains all world-over cause expensive mistakes day in day out. Give the poor lad a chance.