Leeds Bradford: Air Traffic, ILS & Navigation Aids

[lbaspotter]

Yep I forgot to say NDB/DME approaches. It sounds like every things up and running back to normal now with the ILS back in use.

 

[The Pole]

I have often heard the following by ATC and wondered what the difference was......

ATC to Aircraft - "What's your current heading?"

A/C to ATC - Heading is 123 degrees

ATC - A/C - Make that a radar heading of 123 degrees

What's the difference between heading and radar heading. I know the difference between heading and track, but in all the years been reading ATC literature never come across this, or if I have its never sunk in!

 

[a300boy]

No difference !!!
what the controller means is maintain the heading you are flying as the heading he wants you to fly under his radar direction until he or she gives further instructions to change the heading.

 

[The Pole]

No difference !!!
what the controller means is maintain the heading you are flying as the heading he wants you to fly under his radar direction until he or she gives further instructions to change the heading.

Thanks I did think that maybe the case but was not 100% sure

 

[User0001]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5grKK98stM[/video]

 

[Aviador]

I noticed today that the new delivery frequency was being used.

 

[The Pole]

Any one know why the ILS is unserviceable and has been since yesterday?

 

[lbaspotter]

Any one know why the ILS is unserviceable and has been since yesterday?

I'm sure I've read elsewhere that the ILS was been calibrated yesterday, So that might be the reason as to why the ILS is unserviceable.
Also heard last night that almost half of the final approach lights are not working down the runway 32 end for some reason as well.

 

[The Pole]

You may be right, as in June 2011 it was u/s, so may be annual check, also saw twin prop flying about yesterday, could that have been checker or calibrater or what ever the callsign is nowadays

 

[White Heather]

I definitely saw the calibrator aircraft yesterday. Nothing else tends to do a high speed wheels up approach down the ILS! It was around for a good while and I have seen that aircraft doing it many times before. It replaced the old turquoise HS748 that was used previously - I posted a photo of that one in the nostalgia thread.

 

[Aviador]

I recently spoke to some Monarch flight deck crews who told me they'd been carrying out some practice autolands. They didn't have any favourable comments about the system so it's not looking good. Nothing we didn't already know about the ILS at LBA but it highlights yet another airline that can't use the system at LBA.

 

[Lamix1W]

How do you mean another airline that can't use the ILS at LBA? The system is fully working, checked and approved by the CAA. The fact that the runway has a slope which means the aircraft float a bit longer is not grounds to say that it's no good. Perhaps the monarch flight crew you spoke to are used to long, flat runways? Also if there was a problem with it, they wouldn't even do practice autolands.

 

[a300boy]

Based on previous reports an A320 registered in the Uk would have problems doing a Cat3 with an autoland due to the landing distance available and as Lamix1W says it is not a IlS system problem. Still seems odd to me that Uk operators have much stricter criteria than other EEC operators.

 

[Aviador]

Sorry yes, I should have made my post clearer. It's not the actual ILS that's the problem it's the landing distance available but if having a short landing distance and CAT3 don't go well together, surely it is something the airport will need to address at some point in the future. It is something that has been covered on here on numerous occasions but I thought it was worthy of a mention given Monarch are a new player at LBA. Not being able to use autoland will be a disadvantage for them in comparison with their competitors.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

easyJet gets in on the Cat3b ILS at BRS on r/w 27 which I presume has a shorter landing distance than at LBA - 1876 metres on BRS 27 according to Wiki which I accept is not always the last word in factual information although the entire length of the runway is only 2011 metres.

Interestingly though, Ryanair sometimes still diverts in such conditions when easyJet is still landing.

I've been told at different times that it's down to individual company operating procedures or the B 738 needs slightly less onerous conditions than the A319/320.

Being someone with no aviation technical experience I always hope for a conclusive explanation.

 

[a300boy]

Yes it would seem a strange miss match of the JAR regulation being applied by different airlines in their operation manual limitation sections. As I have pointed out before my ex company could have done a Cat 3 approach followed by an autoland on runway 32 at max landing weight [ 295000 lbs ] on an Airbus A300 legally [ Irish registration ] It however may not be a good decision to do so due to the known surface slope and float problems. The only fix for this is more concrete or some creative threshold undershoot and lighting modifications if the Caa and planners would allow it and the costs were not prohibitive.

 

[a300boy]

TheLocalYokel
What about Thomson and whoever else operate larger aircraft to Bristol , do they accept Cat 3 approaches there ?

 

[The Pole]

Why has 32 got a displaced threshold? My understanding is that the displaced threshold is in place to give arriving aircraft clearance over an obstruction while still allowing departing aircraft the maximum amount of runway available. There are no obstacles anywhere near the end of 32, by the time the aircraft touch down they are opposite the end of the taxiway, about a quarter of the way down the runway length!
Likewise 14 has a displaced threshold and several metres of flat grass between the end of the concrete and the localiser antenna, I realise that the chevin apparently has something to do with 14, but I thought this was mainly to do with the climb out.

As Aviador said this has been mentioned on here previously about increasing the ILS from 3 to 3.5 degrees and moving the threshold back. Aircraft would probably then touch down on the piano keys/32 designator, but does the ILS have to be increased? The houses off Scotland Lane are a lot lower than the runway level anyway!

Any info appreciate

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Displaced threshold 32 is so placed I believe to give Scotland Lane residents less noise. I think it was displaced when the runway extension was opened, before that full length was available of 32 (or 33 as it was then)

 

[The Pole]

Would it really make much difference noise wise to move it back several hundred metres? I dont think so!
Most aircraft are alot quieter today than back in the 80's when it was extended!
As previously mentioned the 3.5 degree glide would keep the aircraft higher if that is the issue!
LBA get your hand in your purse and get it moved!!! 🙂