Bristol Airport - General Thread

[TheLocalYokel]

Returned to the airport at mid day yesterday after 4 months. Few observations

Pleasantly surprised to see so many passengers returning and going out with their large suitcases walking along the main road

The tall fencing on the road from the OTB to the Main terminal has disappeared.

Short term car park was full.

Multi story car park appeared close to full

New bus station and drop off, pick up point. With its own enclosed waiting area and toilets. It’s underneath the multi storey.

The airport camera van monitoring speed limits and unauthorised parking is back in operation.

New Uber parking near silver zones. Lots of drivers milling around. They have 1 hr free parking....shock horror...revenue for the airport there

Many thanks for that update, kraktoa.

More flights are coming on stream. For the past week daily departures (and thus arrivals as well) have been well in excess of 20- today it's 29.

With TUI and others restarting/increasing operations shortly, August ought to see between a third and a half of the normal number of daily departures at this time of year.

I've done random seat selector checks in recent days and there have been several 'sold out' flights with easyJet and Ryanair to sun destinations as well as to Belfast International. Scotland flights seem less well used at present with some days seeing seating take-up at under 50% of capacity according to the seat selector (not an entirely accurate guide of course).

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Campaigners call on Bristol Airport to drop expansion appeal threat

"The Airport should do the decent thing"

www.bristolpost.co.uk

BRS is still to make up its mind whether to appeal the local authority's rejection of the airport's expansion planning application.

StopBristoAirportExpansion (SBAE) is demanding that the airport publicly announces the abandonment of an appeal. Apart from the climate perspective, the group feels that the threat could leave North Somerset Council with a huge legal bill.

The planning committee councillors were warned strongly about that possibility by their own senior planning officer at the hearing immediately before they made their rejection decision against their planning team's advice.

The climate change argument is a case of shedding crocodile tears by SBAE, because on their website they were actively promoting the idea of Cardiff Airport taking the extra flights that a BRS expansion would bring about (interestingly not Exeter Airport - perhaps that's too 'West Country' for their liking, and they don't want more aircraft anywhere in the region). Unless of course they think that flights from CWL don't have the same impact on the climate as those from BRS.

One doesn't have to be a cynic to detect 'nimbyism' in play rather than a fear of climate change.

 

[Seasider]

I think most people on this forum (and others) see the objectors using the environment as an excuse for being a nimby.

 

[superking]

Most of them talking about things they dont know. Like a load of sheep, follow each other. No time for people like that.

 

[Marko1]

I think it’s a perfect time to appeal . The government has to be seen to be supporting the aviation sector and job creation in general. If it leaves a council with a large bill then so be it. At the end of the day they chose to go against expert advice .

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I think it’s a perfect time to appeal . The government has to be seen to be supporting the aviation sector and job creation in general. If it leaves a council with a large bill then so be it. At the end of the day they chose to go against expert advice .

Leeds Bradford Airport is in a similar position to BRS in that its owner wants to spend £150 million of its own money to build a state-of-the-art, environmental terminal that would enable the airport to handle up to 7 mppa. As with BRS there is a well organised and well funded opposition group that uses the same arguments as SBAE, even the issue of overseas ownership taking the profits abroad. LBA's owner is a huge Australian investment management group.

Many posters on the LBA thread believe that in the present climate an organisation prepared to support the many jobs necessary to build the terminal without the need to send begging letters to the pubic purse ought to be welcomed by the government. LBA is a bit behind BRS in that its planning application which has recently closed to further formal submissions is yet to be decided by its local authority, Leeds City Council.

I will be very surprised if BRS does not appeal to the Planning Inspectorate although the virus situation might have sightly clouded the issue. Tactically, I would wait until the eleventh hour, which is mid-September, before launching the appeal as apart from anything else it will give a few extra weeks to see how the industry is beginning to recover. If BRS decides to stick with what it's got it might find itself wishing it had more capacity in a few years time if aviation rebounds post-COVID.

Although in the event of a BRS appeal a planning inspector could make the final decision on the matter (following a public enquiry), because of the type of application I would expect the secretary of state to make the decision taking into account the planning inspector's recommendations.

Had the virus not raised its entirely unwelcome head BRS expected 10 mppa to be reached by the end of next year (the first two months of this year saw an additional 51,000 passengers compared with the same period in 2019). It might well be that any appeal is not finally disposed of until well into 2021 which would have put the airport in an awkward position possibly having to turn away traffic. At least the virus has removed that situation.

Wearing a devil's advocate hat for a minute, had BRS been allowed to increase its passenger cap to 12 mppa and had the virus not intervened, the airport was projecting 12 mppa by around 2025. If they wanted to grow beyond that (airport publications have mentioned up to 20 mppa by the 2040s) they would have been back to the local authority possibly as soon as 2023 asking for a further rise in the passenger cap. Almost certainly they would have needed a variation of the Green Belt too. Coming so soon after the 10 mppa increase that might have raised some eyebrows even amongst some of those who are usually supportive of BRS growth.

 

[superking]

A well put togeather peice and well thought out. I agree with all you have written TLY.I do hope theairport dont sit back and let it got run over by a bunch of people that dont really know what they talking about or having a vote on it. Lets hope they do appeal and cost NSC a lot of money,that way when they vote on things in the future they will do it with a lot more info passed to the voters.

 

[Seasider]

Don't forget it will cost the airport a lot of money to appeal. They have got to decide whether it is worth appealing taking into account the effects of Covid 19.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Don't forget it will cost the airport a lot of money to appeal. They have got to decide whether it is worth appealing taking into account the effects of Covid 19.

If the airport owner, Ontario Teachers Pension Plan (OTPP), doesn't appeal it is stuck with a limit of 10 mppa for many years, perhaps for ever. £400 million has been spent on infrastructure and other expansion over the past two decades which has increased the value of the fixed asset tremendously.

Being left with an airport that can't grow will make the business a less attractive proposition if the owner wished to sell it, not to mention the loss of the chance to increase profits in the future. Much of the BRS profitability comes from non-aeronautical sources such as retail and car parking which rely on increasing airport footfall to grow. The airport company also has a considerable debt which is entirely manageable in normal times, but reduced profits or even reduced growth in profits might alter that situation.

Unless it's thought that COVID will impact aviation for ever and passenger numbers will never grow much from the 2019 level, it will be seen in, say, ten years time in the same way as the Gulf Wars, 9/11, the volcanic ash, the major recession of the 'noughties': one of those events that puts the brake on aviation from time to time.

The cost of an appeal would be small beer compared with the profits the airport has been making in recent years.

The question is can the airport owner afford not to do everything in its power to try to have the local authority rejection overturned? If OTPP decides to 'stick' it would have a decision to make about what admittedly is a very small part of its $207 billion portfolio of net assets.

 

[kraktoa]

Spain quarantine measures reintroduced. Passengers returning from midnight tonight have to self isolate for 14 days. That’s summer 2020 ruined.

 

[vickersviscount]

I can't see the airport not appealing the decision to turn down expansion.
I would have thought within days of the councils ratification of the decision to reject expansion,the airports legal advisors would have been scouring the formal documents laying out the reasons for rejection looking for any I's not dotted and T's not crossed.You don't have to be a critic of any council to know that legal certainty is not their strong point. The desicion to reject expansion was made with the heart and not the head.
Prior to the Corona virus outbreak I would have said the chances of success of an appeal would have been marginal as the Greta Thunberg circus had created a momentum of sentiment that pretty well painted the aviation industry as the devil in carnate.It's hard to believe that Greta Thunbergs visit to Bristol was only back in February 28th of this year,but that was then and that's not where we are now.Corina virus has changed everything.
The management of Bristol Airport have so far kept their powder dry, but as is the case in many business disputes,timing is all.I don't believe it's a case of if,more a case of when.I don't think we'll have to wait much longer.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I can't see the airport not appealing the decision to turn down expansion.
I would have thought within days of the councils ratification of the decision to reject expansion,the airports legal advisors would have been scouring the formal documents laying out the reasons for rejection looking for any I's not dotted and T's not crossed.You don't have to be a critic of any council to know that legal certainty is not their strong point. The desicion to reject expansion was made with the heart and not the head.
Prior to the Corona virus outbreak I would have said the chances of success of an appeal would have been marginal as the Greta Thunberg circus had created a momentum of sentiment that pretty well painted the aviation industry as the devil in carnate.It's hard to believe that Greta Thunbergs visit to Bristol was only back in February 28th of this year,but that was then and that's not where we are now.Corina virus has changed everything.
The management of Bristol Airport have so far kept their powder dry, but as is the case in many business disputes,timing is all.I don't believe it's a case of if,more a case of when.I don't think we'll have to wait much longer.

A planning inspector won't be swayed by sentiment. He or she will be looking at the reasons for the local authority's rejection together with the law and local and national guidance on the subject. The council's professional planning staff clearly believed there was insufficient justification to reject the application.

The planning inspector could decide the outcome of the appeal him or herself, but I would think that given the nature of it the secretary of state would make the decision with the planning inspector's recommendations taken into account although I believe that, as with the local authority and its planning officers, the sec of state is not obliged to follow the inspector's recommendations.

If ultimately the local authority rejection is overturned on appeal that still might not be the end of it because opponents could still seek a judicial review. They tried that in 2011 when North Somerset approved the previous major planning application but their attempts were unsuccessful.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Spain quarantine measures reintroduced. Passengers returning from midnight tonight have to self isolate for 14 days. That’s summer 2020 ruined.

Eleven of the 37 departures scheduled for tomorrow are to Spain or its territories.

 

[superking]

Its a no brainer with an appeal,as if they dont then in theory any more expansion plans would be thrown out before it even starts.It should be looked at fairly,but as it is its one way traffic,and if the appeal did get turned down there would be a chance if a application was presented in the future then it would be looked at in a different light. So they have to appeal as that would have a lot of clout with many different bodies.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Eleven of the 37 departures scheduled for tomorrow are to Spain or its territories.

All departures have operated thus far. The only TUI flight today is to Heraklion and that has departed.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Its a no brainer with an appeal,as if they dont then in theory any more expansion plans would be thrown out before it even starts.It should be looked at fairly,but as it is its one way traffic,and if the appeal did get turned down there would be a chance if a application was presented in the future then it would be looked at in a different light. So they have to appeal as that would have a lot of clout with many different bodies.

My view has always been with this application that I would be comfortable with a planning officer's decision or recommendations to the secretary of state whether for approval or rejection. My reasoning is that a planning officer would have looked at the whole thing dispassionately and professionally, applying the law and local/national planning guidance.

Local councillors don't do that, or at least many of them don't. They often have a pre-decided agenda as was shown with the North Somerset Council planning committee this time when some of the councillors who made the decision were the very people who had been elected to the council on an anti-airport expansion 'ticket'. Indeed, one of them presented the motion for rejection at the meeting.

If there is an appeal and, after all avenues have been exhausted, the planning application was still not approved it would mean unequivocally that it does not meet the current law and guidance. Undoubtedly that would have some impact on the economy of the region but it already manages well enough with no long-haul and relies on LHR as its' 'local' long-haul airport. I'm not aware of any serious independent study that measures the degree to which BRS plays in the Bristol region's economic success, one of the most vibrant economic regions in the country.

 

[vickersviscount]

Something I didn't mention in my previous posting,was that when I driving home from work the other afternoon,I tuned into Radio Bristol to listen to the news bulletin and heard the tail end of a statement from a spokesman for s.b.a.e. The gist of the bit I heard was that they were asking for the airport not to appeal as this would take advantage of the councils dire financial predicament following the corona virus outbreak.What struck me that their spokesperson,a professor(didnt catch his name) was almost pleading for the airport to do the right thing,and not appeal.Wanting to hear the statement in full I tried to find the piece on one of the podcast/catchup platforms but couldn't find it.So I went on to the s.b.a.e website but found that the statement had been withdrawn and a new update would be released later on that day.Although the new update does mention the financial pressure on North Somerset council if the airport appeals,the bulk of the new update is full of the usual bombastic jargon.Words and sentances like, 'dystopian vision' ,'greedy cuckoo squating in the North Somerset nest'.'weaponised the right to appeal','ruthless self-interest'. I take it that there must of been some dissent in the ranks when the original update was released,probably to defeatist.The new update is much more on form.If the update had included the sentence,The airport management will kidnap your children and sell them into slavery for profit,I swear I wouldn't have blinked.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Something I didn't mention in my previous posting,was that when I driving home from work the other afternoon,I tuned into Radio Bristol to listen to the news bulletin and heard the tail end of a statement from a spokesman for s.b.a.e. The gist of the bit I heard was that they were asking for the airport not to appeal as this would take advantage of the councils dire financial predicament following the corona virus outbreak.What struck me that their spokesperson,a professor(didnt catch his name) was almost pleading for the airport to do the right thing,and not appeal.Wanting to hear the statement in full I tried to find the piece on one of the podcast/catchup platforms but couldn't find it.So I went on to the s.b.a.e website but found that the statement had been withdrawn and a new update would be released later on that day.Although the new update does mention the financial pressure on North Somerset council if the airport appeals,the bulk of the new update is full of the usual bombastic jargon.Words and sentances like, 'dystopian vision' ,'greedy cuckoo squating in the North Somerset nest'.'weaponised the right to appeal','ruthless self-interest'. I take it that there must of been some dissent in the ranks when the original update was released,probably to defeatist.The new update is much more on form.If the update had included the sentence,The airport management will kidnap your children and sell them into slavery for profit,I swear I wouldn't have blinked.

Probably someone called Emma Crewe from SBAE. In my post #1,405 above I posted a link (repeated below) to a Bristol Live (Bristol Post) report. This was no doubt based on SBAE's press release and contained some of the comments you mention.

SBAE have been reading too much Aldous Huxley. In a sad sort of way it's quite amusing to believe that there are people who think that an airport appeal is tantamount to creating some sort of Orwellian 1984 world where everyone is watched and controlled. As the word dystopia is generally accepted in the context of an imagined future world perhaps it's appropriate that an organisation such as SBAE should use it. They certainly use their imagination to the full in many of their objection comments about airport expansion.

Campaigners call on Bristol Airport to drop expansion appeal threat

"The Airport should do the decent thing"

www.bristolpost.co.uk

 

[Seasider]

I find it difficult to believe, if true, that an anti BRS expansion supporter is asking the airport not to appeal because of the financial situation of the local authority. What happened to all the reasons they put forward in the first place?
I think they are desperate because they believe that the expansion, will be approved on appeal.

 

[superking]

I live in the North somerset area and i have not shouted as i think a lot of the things the council do or not do is down to them. Every time that happens i think here we go again costing thousands of pounds of money which they have not got,so some where some thing misses out bacause of things they doing they dont know enough about it.They like a load of sheep follow one another