Road, Rail & Access Issues

[Tarn Spotter]

My concern is that a lot of the objectors I have meet over the last few months with regard to the airport link road, are not locals, but are just in the area to promote things they object about without a care about local needs.
When you challenge them on their views, they normally fall back they are trying to save the planet and we locals should be governed by the big picture, not our local needs.
White Heather is right, there will always be someone that objects, thats why our local MP's etc, have to ignore local objections and make the right decision, even if it means upsetting a majority of their voters. The most popular choice is not always the right long term choice.

 

[White Heather]

cmj, I fail to see how the proposed link road can make a bad situation worse. It would remove a considerable amount of through traffic that would normally have to queue along Victoria Avenue, Yeadon and at Rawdon and make life much better for the people who have to pass through those areas each day. It will undoubtedly knock 10 minutes off the journey to the airport when approaching from the A65 too. It may also remove some of the traffic using the A6120 Ring Road between Horsforth and Lawnswood, as traffic bound for Otley/Pool/Harrogate will have an alternative to using the A6120 and A660/A61. However, what worries me is that I see no plans to improve the traffic situation in Pool in Wharfedale, or at the Dynley Arms, both of which are problems already. Both need sorting as part of this. That is the joined up thinking that is often sadly lacking in Leeds when it comes to transport infrastructure.

Another example would be the trolley bus scheme. Not only does a trolley bus do nothing that a normal or hybrid bus cannot do, (so in my view is a complete waste of time that will devastate the environment along its route as hundreds of trees are removed, buildings demolished etc) but only in Leeds would we run such a scheme to terminate at Holt Park ASDA, when there is an International Airport 3 miles up the road. Anywhere else but Leeds, the trolley bus would terminate at the airport. It was the same with the ill fated Super Tram scheme.

The latest situation only shows how ill educated some of our councillors and MPs are when it comes to transport. They openly object to the road scheme (to appease their voters) and campaign for a rail link which is not technically possible and if it were, it would be a minimum of 10 years away. Clearly nothing to do with improving transport around the airport, just about being seen to keep their vociferous voters happy. What is clearly needed is an improvement in the road structure in NW Leeds generally, incorporating the airport, and some form of rail link to LBA. The quickest and cheapest way to achieve that is, without question, a parkway station on the Harrogate Line and link bus (extended car park shuttle) up to the terminal. That could be in place at a fraction of the cost and half the time, and would link LBA to most of the country via Leeds and also from York/Knaresborough/Harrogate. Both the road and Parkway Station can be provided for less than the cost of a tram train system, which isn't even being trialled until 2017 between Sheffield and Rotherham. Instead of just doing more surveys and studies, many of which seem to contradict each other, we need to be making things happen now. Instead of a road scheme, we need to progress that and the parkway station at the same time, perhaps with a park and ride as part of the scheme. In the meantime, the tram train option can be progressed for the future. If it is feasible and affordable then a link from the Parkway Station up to the airport and on to Guiseley can be added later.

Someone in the Council/METRO etc just need to get a grip!! At least the latest report which confirms heavy rail is not viable and that both road links and rail links are needed is talking some sense at last. Hopefully it will be the last report of its kind and we might actually get a decision.

 

[rmac]

White Heather I can only fully agree with you on the points you raise. In my opinion the Parkway station is a must but also the road is needed too. When you arrive at Dusseldorf airport there is a mono rail system which takes you to the mainline railway and from there into downtown Dusseldorf. It takes about 5 mins and appears to be free, at least I asked how to pay etc and was told - no just go on - nobody pays!! Well a similar system at LBA might work okay although probably about 3 times in length. It should be free and frequent, at least connecting to trains to Leeds and Harrogate/York. If nothing else at least a bus shuttle could be in place. First impressions are important and if foreign visitors, especially businessmen find a well organised, well funded and convenient transit through the airport to their destination they will speak well of the area, want to do more business, want to come back, etc, etc. In other words - a good advert for Yorkshire!. So even if the operating costs show a manageable loss the increased business and prestige the airport brings to the area will be a bonus. Perhaps at a later date a better system taking the traveller right into the airport itself might prove advantageous and affordable.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

rmac: Having been a businessman for over half a century, not sure the state of the arrival airport or the infrastructure has ever had any impact on my business decision. How much business could I create, new jobs, profit etc were my guiding light. When I drive from an airport and see barren land, I just see the hope of building a factory on the land.
The airport/docks are just the means of getting people and products moved. Its like being in Europe or not, my sales will be totally the same, being in Europe only has an effect on the cost of the business not its sales.
We use LBA as the commence of all our world trips, because its the closest and going to Manchester is fraught with more dangers and delays then using LBA. If we get to the airport 10 minutes earlier due to new road/rail, its not going to change our decision on airport LBA.
For me the link roads/rail are vital in improving the lifestyle of the locals and assisting in their commute, getting people a bit faster to the airport, is hopefully just a byproduct.

 

[Bigman]

It will be interesting to see what impact the new Great Yorkshire Way will have on Donny. Another 18 months for the direct link to the airport. This might give us some sort of clue as to what positive impact this has on a local airport and it's surrounding businesses/housing etc.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Not really a like for like situation.
Even the new part link road will make at least 30 minutes improvement in journey time. None of the LBA three link roads are going to make much difference in journey times.
Whilst the Look North segment tried to put a positive spin, so far none of the 350k sqaure feet of warehouse units have found a tenant, even though they are now constructed. Obviously this link road will I am sure met its predicted 4,000 new homes in the next decade, the cost of the road should have been met by the developers both, commercial and private property rather then the tax payer.
It is feasible that DSA could become a freight airport over the next two decades and up to 3m sq foot of warehouse could be developed to make it a competitor to East Midlands and I assume night time flying not an issue.
These options are not open to LBA on the freight side.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Colin Speakman: How the train can take the strain to Leeds Bradford Airport

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/opi ... -1-7783314

A piece in today's paper from the spokesman of a local transport pressure group advocating a rail spur rather than expensive road schemes.

Not being intimately connected wit the area I found the piece interesting.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Thanks for putting up the article, it does make some interesting points.
I certianly think more roads not the answer as air pollution is already ruining the lungs of our young children.
I am not sure about the rail road link. My only experience of a similar one is the link from the Parkway station in Luton to the airport. Not used for a few years but at peak time the whole distance could become a car park, once took us 90 minutes from the station to the airport and only 1.2 miles.

 

[lbaspotter]

Now to me Brian L Dunsby, Chief Executive, Harrogate Chamber of Trade and Commerce talks common sense in this article regards Horsforth station becoming an Airport Parkway station

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/opi ... -1-7777092

It would mean local Arriva Northern trains from York, Harrogate and Leeds along with the new Harrogate-London services would be linked to the airport using quick direct shuttle buses. The project could be delivered quicker and done at fraction of the cost compared to building a new rail line and station. Bus journeys wouldn't take that long either once the new (Already funded) A65-A658 Airport link road is open..

 

[Tarn Spotter]

If were going to have a road/rail link to the airport vital we make the right choice on the new airport link road.
As mentioned above the link form Luton parkway station to the airport also took all the other airport traffic making it at peak times just a car park over its total length and Iremember when it first opened and I used to get to Pisa, one of the only direct flights available for someone based in the north, they stated 4 minutes would be journey time.
I never did in less then 30 minutes and the worst I have to accept in snow 90 minutes which was basically me giving up and walking the whole distance, not happy as I had 90 kilo of luggage carrying works samples.
If this link can be used by other then rail shuttle traffic it will be a disaster.

 

[lbaspotter]

Looks like Bus company Yorkshire Tiger are making some changes to the Flying Tiger 757 Leeds-Airport bus service from the May Service changes. I guess this may involve the overnight late journeys been reintroduced for the summer season.

PB1078487/77 - YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD
Variation Accepted: Operating between LEEDS and LEEDS BRADFORD AIRPORT given service number 757 effective from 15-May-2016. To amend Timetable.

 

[lbaspotter]

The flying Tiger bus service 757 (Leeds - Airport) has some timetable changes coming in next month service changes (May 14-16th) as this has just appeared on the wymetro website this afternoon. Some less used non tenderd early morning and evening journeys are been withdrawn whilst the hourly over night service will be reintroduced for summer.

Source: http://www.wymetro.com/uploadedFile...s/ServiceChanges/service-changes-may-2016.pdf

757
Leeds • Kirkstall • Horsforth • Leeds Bradford Airport
Sun 15 May 2016
Operated by Yorkshire Tiger
This service will now operate all day with the introduction of an hourly overnight service between the Airport and Leeds Rail Station.
Some early morning and late evening journeys will be withdrawn. Customers are advised that Senior & Disabled concessions, MCards, MetroCards, MetroDay and West Yorkshire DayRovers are not valid on journeys between 0000 and 0500.
The following flat fares are in operation during these times:
Adult - £3.60 single and £6.00 return
Child - £1.80 single and £3.00 return

 

[Seasider]

I didn't want to continue an access issue in the route development thread.
From where I live on the East Coast, the only viable option is the car. To travel by train needs at least 2 changes and takes twice as long as the car. The only way you could travel by bus is if you have a late afternoon departure and an early morning arrival so that cuts out the majority of destinations.
I feel that the advantage of a rail link is for local (within 30 miles) passengers but at the end of the day we are a "Car Society" and unless petrol/diesel becomes unavailable, that will continue to be the car.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

I didn't want to continue an access issue in the route development thread.
From where I live on the East Coast, the only viable option is the car. To travel by train needs at least 2 changes and takes twice as long as the car. The only way you could travel by bus is if you have a late afternoon departure and an early morning arrival so that cuts out the majority of destinations.
I feel that the advantage of a rail link is for local (within 30 miles) passengers but at the end of the day we are a "Car Society" and unless petrol/diesel becomes unavailable, that will continue to be the car.

If this is the case, then it would also be the case if you were travelling to Manchester, Doncaster, Liverpool, East Midlands, Heathrow or wherever. What it would do is increase the options for people. So, instead of driving from South of Sheffield, one could get the tram to Sheffield station and then the train to an airport parkway. This would definitely make some people consider LBA as an alternative. It wouldn't be the answer for everyone but then there is never going to be a best fit for everyone. People in Ilkley are within 30 miles of the airport but, if they were to use the train, they would have to go to Leeds and then change to the parkway. This would be of zero benefit to them as the drive is about 25 minutes. The whole point is that it provides options. It makes it more attractive to people who may choose Manchester and it makes it more attractive to inbound passengers to Yorkshire as they would have a rail connection rather than a bus. Regardless of what is done with rail, bus, helicopter, hovercraft or whatever, some people are always going to use the car. A rail link is not aimed at them.

 

[Bigman]

Hopefully the 737 and 747 should become more important in the next few years. Bradford Interchange will see new trains direct to Liverpool, Warrington, Chester, Wakefield Westgate, Sheffield, Chesterfield and Nottingham in the next few years. On the flip side, it will also get a direct service to Manny Airport.

 

[leedslad]

In light of the Leeds Trolley Bus being cancelled, but the city keeping £173m for new transport project...

I am sure the airport will be lobbying for that cash to help better link the airport. I wonder if the airport will be willing to put up any cash toward a possible tram train station if that's the solution the council pursue...

 

[Bigman]

Maybe they should be looking at a tram train system working Leeds-Headingley-Horsforth-Airport-Guiseley-Shipley-Bradford-New Pudsey-Leeds. This could use the existing railway lines between Leeds and Horsforth, Guiseley and Bradford, and Bradford and Leeds, with new sections including city centre routes. This would provide a much better Leeds-Bradford core service, as well as direct fixed links from both cities to the airport. You could build lots of new stations including one at Headingley Stadium and one near Valley Parade. One advantage is that Guiseley to Bradford is already electrified. Right, tin hat on!!!

 

[ls27]

Just come across an article in the Railway Magazine. It is about Luton Airport where the airport owner has announced a round the clock light rail system from Luton Airport Parkway Station.. What it is relevant to Leeds is the third paragraph. I quote 'The geography of the area, with the airport located on a hill above the railway, makes a heavy rail line and the prospect of through trains to St Pancras too expensive and difficult to build.' This type of light rail system should be possible at Leeds, if a Park Way Station is built.

 

[Aviador]

I'm somewhat sceptical Leeds will ever see the £170m the government promised Leeds. It will dissappear along with all the hype about the so-called Northern Powerhouse.

 

[ls27]

I think you are right Aviador. Leeds would have been looked in a better light from all Parties if it was at the other side of the Pennines! Can't believe I said that!!