Cardiff Airport - General Thread

[TheLocalYokel]

Another thing that baffles me is that a while ago it was mentioned that a low cost carrier was interested in CWL but nothing has materialised and nothing has been mentioned since.

From memory the conjecture began when the chairman of the airport company told a WAG committee that the airport had been approached that very day by a low cost airline. This would have been in the early part of this year.

As we know, the airport is subject to a lot of party political points scoring, especially since it came into public ownership - although even before that opposition politicians would accuse the government of not doing enough to help the the then private owners, and the remark which I'm sure was true might have been dropped in to show political airport company critics how well CWL was progressing since the dark days of a few years earlier.

Ryanair and Jet2 seemed the favourite bets amongst many CWL followers at the time and possibly still, and if either one was the airline that had acted proactively talks might have taken place, might still be taking place. We're not likely to learn of a failure to make a deal but positive news will likely only be made public when any agreement is finalised.

 

[Jerry]

Ryanair and Jet2 seemed the favourite bets amongst many CWL followers at the time and possibly still

I suppose we would only know if talks took place is if they were successful. Though Ryanair and Jet2 always seem to be mentioned but Norwegian never gets mentioned. They are a LCC with a successful brand and seem to be expanding all the time and also they have a long haul side and although CWL probably couldn't fill a JFK, i would've thought it could fill an Orlando flight say 2 or 3 times during the summer holidays. Would be good to see them flying from CWL under their own banner rather than a charter for thomson.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Cardiff Diana Princess of Wales Airport

There is talk today that someone has come with an idea to rename CWL. Apart from not liking the idea of airports being named after anyone, this is particularly amusing given the length of the name.

I suspect that some locals (especially perhaps from the older generation) still refer to CWL as 'Rhoose' or 'Rhoose airport' in the same way that some people across the estuary still speak of BRS as 'Lulsgate' or 'Lulsgate airport'.

 

[Jerry]

Cardiff Diana Princess of Wales Airport

Other name that have been suggested are Roald Dahl airport, Dylan Thomas airport and Sir Tom Jones International Airport!
KLM still have it as Cardiff Wales Airport. Cardiff Airport is just fine!

 

[CraigW92]

With regards to the name change subject, a costly projdt and one quite frankly which is not needed, Cardiff airport is Cardiff airport, improving passenger numbers and encouraging new routes and airlines is far more vital. Moving on...

Worth noting with regards to Wales online article that has been eluded to in the Flybe thread, The first quote is quote interesting.

Looking to the future, Mr Lewis said the airport was projecting “significant growth” for the year ahead.

Now it will be interesting at what is seen as " Significant growth ", passenger numbers should tend to begin to even off pretty much after October ( Rugby World Cup impact).

Potential routes:

Flybe/Blue islands: Guernsey- licence applied for

Cobalt - Larnaca - Was set for a Summer 17 launch, with the a new CEO and a change in the ways things are done, will be interesting to see if this is still in the plans

http://in-cyprus.com/a-change-of-strategy/


Pretty quiet on the rumour mill at the current moment, I've heard noises of an increased Vueling presence from next year but that remains unclear wether it's frequencies or a new route.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Airlines and airports are very good with the spin so I'm always cautious at taking such statements at face value.

Vueling sees some growth next year with PMI rising to 4 x weekly from March as does Barcelona. This year they built up to their full weekly schedules through the spring.

Significant growth is a subjective term really - can mean almost anything. I will be very surprised if there is not further growth announced across the Costas and similar destinations, probably by Vueling but if not by someone else but who that someone else might be is a moot point.

 

[superking]

to keep vueling happy it can only be them doing some thing extra.discussed this many times. but if FR came in they would start with what vueling are doing. better off with whats there now

 

[Jerry]

Looking to the future, Mr Lewis said the airport was projecting “significant growth” for the year ahead.

He also mentioned during a speech before the first LCY flight that in the coming months there would be further good news for Cardiff airport and increased opportunities (the video on the South Wales Evening Post site cut off after that). But what that entails i guess only the airport knows! It will be interesting to see if any new airlines come along or whether there will be further expansion from the airlines already there.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

That does sound as though something is more or less guaranteed, as much as anything can be guaranteed in the aviation world.

 

[Jerry]

That does sound as though something is more or less guaranteed, as much as anything can be guaranteed in the aviation world.

Yes it does but thinking could be anything really. Hopefully it'll new destinations or maybe a new airline but it could also be infrastructure or development wise or new jet bridges! Hopefully we'll find out sooner rather than later.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/air-passenger-tax-should-devolved-11878174

Plaid Cymru tabled an amendment to the Wales Bill this week to include APD in the taxes to be devolved to the Welsh Assembly. The amendment was defeated by 281 votes to 195.

The counter arguments from senior politicians are diametrically opposed.

The current Conservative Welsh Under Secretary of State is quoted in the linked article:
“Supporting Cardiff Airport or any other airport does not necessitate giving it special tax status to artificially distort the market in its favour. Indeed, I’m very pleased that Cardiff Airport is thriving with increasing passenger numbers without any need to create an un-level playing field with Bristol."

Interesting in that he was once a Plaid Cymru activist before joining the Conservatives.

The current Labour Shadow Welsh Secretary is quoted:
“Cardiff, our airport, is on the periphery of the periphery and does deserve special treatment, the same as the Scottish airports are, and for the same reason, we deserve that special impetus, that special attraction, to make sure that we can compete. We can’t compete at the moment on an equal basis because of the geography involved and the traffic does flow towards the centre, towards London and towards Bristol.”

I don't know whether these comments are official Labour Party policy. If they are, APD devolution might have to wait until a Labour administration takes over at Westminster.

 

[Tinkerman]

It was an interesting amendment that was tabled by the Plaid MP's, and one which i would fully support.

For parity with Scotland its a must, but given the relative worth of Wales in the MP seat stakes which is set tot reduce to 29 i believe, then that's hardly a bargaining tool in the Commons for Welsh interests is it.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Northern Ireland was a knee jerk reaction to help BFS with CO, now United, to Newark compete with scheduled transatlantic long haul at Dublin. Hasn't worked because the NI government is now bolstering the route with several million pounds of public money which looks suspiciously like illegal EU state aid.

Scotland was a panic measure when it looked as though the Scottish referendum might opt for independence and all the main parties (even Labour that was not even in government) fell over themselves offering the Scottish Parliament all sorts of goodies including additional tax raising powers of which APD was one in an attempt to keep Scotland in the UK.

On that basis there is a strong argument that Wales should be treated similarly.

That leaves the biggest constituent part of the UK at the mercy of the Westminster government and parliament where MPs from all over the UK have a say and the chancellor might even represent a non-English constituency - has happened this century with both Brown and Darling.

So long as the UK remains in the EU the country must comply with EU state aid rules. This means the country must meet the ‘Azores criteria’ where tax powers can only be devolved within a member state to a regional authority that bears a sufficient degree of fiscal and economic autonomy from central government.

Clearly the NI, Scottish and Welsh governments meet this test but no regional authority in England does, unless the so-called Northern Powerhouse is invested with such autonomy.

The Welsh government's budget is large enough to absorb the loss of the APD equivalent from its Westminster block grant if it was given APD powers and chose to reduce it substantially or abolish it which it has said it would do. Smaller regions of England almost certainly would not have the sort of budget that would allow them to reduce APD by much, if at all, were they granted such powers.

Of course, when (if?) the UK leaves the EU the state aid rules will not apply and the Westminster government could, if it wished, be far more imaginative. It could, for example, vary APD rates around England, something that is illegal under EU rules at present.

 

[Jerry]

Plaid Cymru tabled an amendment to the Wales Bill this week to include APD in the taxes to be devolved to the Welsh Assembly.

It'll never happen. It could happen if Wales wasn't sat right next door to England and therefore any devolved APD wouldn't have much of an effect. But neither party could risk any potential effects it could have on the areas across the border. Both the conservatives and Labour want to win seats in those areas so don't want to potentially damage any prospects while in Wales Labour know there seats are secure so don't really need to make any promises like APD while the conservatives know they have no chance of ever gaining Wales so don't see the point of bothering to try.
All the government does really care about is Scotland staying in the union so devolution has ended up unbalanced as a result.
The ironic thing is that although devolving APD would be extremely beneficial to CWL it means that anything it achieves without APD being devolved will be real achievements for the airport and not just because APD was cut.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I agree with your last paragraph in particular. I've said something similar in the past. That said, the WAG, both as CWL owners and as the government, would be delighted at the prospect of setting their own APD rates. Show me an airport owner that wouldn't love that opportunity.

 

[CraigW92]

Well worth a read, some interesting points with regards to a new master plan being drawn up and also long haul.

“We’re focused on long-haul destinations – the Middle East, North America – getting either of those would have a significant benefit,” she says. Flights from Cardiff to the US have been talked about before, and Barber wisely does not give a time by which they’ll start, except to say: “We’re getting closer.”

http://www.insidermedia.com/publica...es-business-insider-october-2016/debra-barber

 

[Jerry]

Well worth a read, some interesting points with regards to a new master plan being drawn up and also long haul.

“We’re focused on long-haul destinations – the Middle East, North America – getting either of those would have a significant benefit,” she says. Flights from Cardiff to the US have been talked about before, and Barber wisely does not give a time by which they’ll start, except to say: “We’re getting closer.”

http://www.insidermedia.com/publica...es-business-insider-october-2016/debra-barber

Thinking outside the box a little with reference to long-haul i do wonder if Norwegian could be attracted to the airport? They are getting 737 MAX aircraft which will be able to get to the east coast and would be the right size for an airport of Cardiff's size and they are also going to start flying to Dubai in the future. A 2 aircraft base of 737 MAX 8 could mix long-haul with the holiday package destinations that are very popular at CWL.
Also in an interview on CNN their CEO mentioned the possibility of flying form smaller and cheaper airports because the bigger ones are so expensive.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

A realistic master plan would be beneficial. The current one - a decade old -was wildly optimistic as for that matter were a number of other airport master plans published around that time. If you believed them CWL would be handling 4.5 mppa now and Exeter nearly 2 million.

Debra Barber is using almost the same words as the previous airport chairman, Lord Rowe-Beddoe, used a couple of years ago when speaking of ME and USA scheduled aspirations.

I believe that the ME would be more useful than the USA but, if it's not one of the MEB3, there would have to be a partnership of some sort to enable onward travel to Australasia and Asia which is a huge proportion of the passenger traffic that flies from the UK to the ME.

 

[Jerry]

I believe that the ME would be more useful than the USA but, if it's not one of the MEB3

I would be very surprised if a USA legacy carrier or a ME3 carrier turned up at CWL. Would be very happy if they did! As an airport they might have to think out of the box USA wise and see if they could attract a low cost carrier like Norwegian and maybe Turkish airlines for eastern travel instead of one of the ME3. At least the airport is growing!

 

[marsh.ger]

I think Turkey route maybe out of the question for now at least.