Cardiff Airport - General Thread

[Ray Finkle]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

I read about this last night and, purely from a BHX point of view, I'm not too sure what they would stand to gain from any partnership with CWL? Mr Kehoe's plans seem to revolve around HS2 and the fact that it will be possible to get to Central London in just under 50 mins, so BHX in theory could be seen as a London overspill airport.

From that article CWL seem to think an envisaged HS3 will put them in a similar position by 2040 but as far as I know the first stage of HS2, London-Birmingham is planned for 2026(ish?), the second phase will be the Y junction up to Manchester and Leeds and isn't planned to be completed until 2036 at the earliest, finances will most likely mean only one line will be constructed at a time so even if everything runs on schedule I couldn't see a HS3 becoming available before 2050. If so this means Birmingham will have had a HS link to London established for 24 years and Manchester and Leeds for 14 years, similarly Manchester and Leeds will have had a HS link to Birmingham and London for 14 years before anything arrives in Cardiff. Given that scenario if the government do decide on major airport expansion outside London then these three areas will most likely be the focus, indeed Mr Kehoe has recently been pushing for a spine of hubs (London, BHX, MAN and one in Scotland) for the U.K. so I can't see what BHX have to gain from a link up with Cardiff.

I guess the commission did ask various organisations what they could offer for the future of U.K. aviation and from what I gather they were told to 'think big', hence Mr Kehoe's 70million pax for BHX, but I did like this quote

it remains to be seen whether passengers would accept a transfer of 150 miles between terminals

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

...................finances will most likely mean only one line will be constructed at a time so even if everything runs on schedule I couldn't see a HS3 becoming available before 2050.

Reading between the lines the Western Gateway people believe deep down that their concept is a non-starter so they've included a second option that merely turns CWL into a busier regional airport. Even this is currently estimated to cost £3 billion, mainly the upgrading of rail and road connectivity.

I suppose they might be taking the view that if you want something ask for something much bigger and you finish up with what you really wanted in the first place, although it seems unlikely that any government (Westminster or Wales Assembly) would have the will or the money respectively to plough in this sort of investment for a relatively modest return of 8 mppa in 15-20 years time.

The rail lines from Paddington to Bristol and Cardiff are to be electrified by 2016 (or is it 2017 as the date seems to be slipping already?) which will speed up travel a bit and there is talk of a spur from this line straight into LHR - not to take passengers to CWL but to enable South Wales/South West passengers to access LHR more easily.

From a personal point of view an alternative to LHR for more long haul routes would be great and BHX and CWL are both about the same distance away from me (on the edge of south Bristol) time-wise, although I shall be pushing up the daisies before any Western Gateway gets off the drawing board even it was viable which I doubt strongly that it is.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

I agree, £3 billion for up to 8 million pax per annum doesn't sound like great business sense. Does anyone know what the maximum capacity Cardiff could operate to as things are now?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

I agree, £3 billion for up to 8 million pax per annum doesn't sound like great business sense. Does anyone know what the maximum capacity Cardiff could operate to as things are now?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-sout ... s-22601240

The above link carries a report in which the group pushing the Western Gateway idea estimates CWL's existing facilities could handle three million passengers a year.

CWL's best year was 2007 when just over 2 mppa were handled but since then it's been downhill all the way to the current 1 mppa, although this year will undoubtedly show a modest annual gain which should be sustained in the immediate following years, all things being equal with the worst scenario still showing the airport gradually but slowly seeing annual rises in passenger numbers.

The immediate catalyst would be a based low-cost airline and there are rumours that Vueling, that already serves the airport on four Spanish summer routes and is going through the winter this year with two of them for the first time (ALC and AGP, both 2 x weekly), is seriously looking at setting up a base, even as soon as summer 2014. That would increase the rate of growth of course.

 

[Aviador]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

The rhetoric these Welsh politicians are coming out is complete nonsense. It sounds like what Doncaster airport managers used to come out with about there "long runway". They are deluded to think the airport could somehow offer an real alternative to passengers wanting long haul flights that would otherwise be using airports in the South East. The best, most sensible and nearest airport to offer such flights is always going to be Birmingham so long as Bristol airport doesn't have a longer runway.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

[textarea]Cardiff expansion tops poll of airport capacity options

A proposal for the expansion of Cardiff Airport has been chosen as the preferred measure to increase the UK’s airport capacity in an influential web poll.

The plan, drawn up by the transport group Western Gateway, received more than half of the votes on the poll on industry website GlobalAirportCities.com

The site is an online community for visitors to the annual Airport Cities World conference and exhibition – and for aeroplane enthusiasts.

Included in the poll were 11 of the 29 proposals for long-term solutions to airport capacity problems submitted to the Airports Commission, the government body examining the UK’s airport space.

Cardiff’s involves the airport becoming Heathrow’s “Atlantic terminal”, which would mean the return of long-haul routes to the airport.

The poll had originally launched with 10 proposals but the Cardiff plan was belatedly included after the website was approached by independent group Fly Cardiff, the group which aims to attract more airlines and business into Cardiff airport.

Despite being added 24 hours after the poll’s launch, Western Gateway’s proposal for Cardiff secured 54% of the vote when it closed.

It beat plans by the likes of Birmingham Airport, which had 12% of the vote.[/textarea]

Full report at: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... rt-5793503

Although the linked press reports talks about 'an influential web poll' it does appear that it was open to air enthusiasts as well. The result suggests that enthusiasts were probably responsible for the result.

 

[Em0866]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

Hi Local. I never take much notice of polls to be honest with you. At times they can be wide of the mark and there's no telling who has "voted" or how many times you can "vote". We'll have a long wait before this Commission comes to their decision. It does seem ridiculous that the decision is not until 2015 though....it is beyond me!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

We'll have a long wait before this Commission comes to their decision. It does seem ridiculous that the decision is not until 2015 though....it is beyond me!

Hello E'm - good to hear from you again.

Cynics suggest it's been put in the government's too-hard-to-do basket so that this government won't have to make a decision.

 

[Em0866]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

I do drop in now and again.
I thought it may have been political and I suspect those cynics have good reason to think that....but I can't help but feel that the decision will favour the South East much more than the remainder of the UK....it is just a hunch more than anything and I hope I am wrong.

 

[News Guru]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

[textarea]Airport optimistic despite deeper losses

Losses increased at Cardiff Airport as the business was hit by the departure of airline operator Bmibaby.
A 2011 operating loss of £302,000 had grown to £1.7m loss a year later while pre-tax losses increased year-on-year from £924,000 to £2.38m.

Turnover at the airport, which announced in March it had struck a £52m buyout deal with the Welsh Government, fell from £16.7m to £14.8m for the year to 31 December 2012.

Notes accompanying the newly filed accounts for Cardiff International Airport Ltd said passenger numbers fell by 16 per cent during the year to 1.02 million, "largely due" to the withdrawal of Bmibaby from the airport in October 2011.

Full story: http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/wal ... ws_tracker[/textarea]

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

There are some rumours circulating this week that new routes from CWL will be announced tomorrow.

 

[Em0866]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

Interesting. I know Vueling have released seats from CWL to BCN from April onwards.....Fri and Sun with Weds in August. We shall wait and see if these rumours are true tomorrow.....I'll be keeping an eye open.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

Since my last post I've read on another website that there is supposed to be a press conference at CWL tomorrow when four routes for the winter will be announced. No information given as to carrier/tour operator (if appropriate) or whether they are charter or scheduled routes.

 

[Em0866]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

Thanks Local. This is intriguing. We'll watch this space, eh!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

It seems that some people running that particular website - you may know which one it is - already know the details but are bound by an embargo on information release until tomorrow.

They have dropped a hint by saying the source is unexpected - not a hint at all really.

Wizz Air is one that is being speculated or it could be some ski charter routes or it could be, well, lots of things.

I've looked at the easyJet and Ryanair route drop-down boxes from other bases as easyJet operates at the likes of BHX and LBA and Ryanair operates all over the place, as they both sometimes jump the gun by putting information of new destinations there before official announcements, but that drew a blank.

 

[superking]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

on another forum its posting says its a flybee press release on the 10th of october. its saying flybee with 4 routes. as been said lets wait and see. the poster on the other thread is not very reliable. time will tell.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

on another forum its posting says its a flybee press release on the 10th of october. its saying flybee with 4 routes. as been said lets wait and see. the poster on the other thread is not very reliable. time will tell.

Flybe has announced weekly flights on Saturdays to Geneva, Lyon, Grenoble and Chambery from 21 December until late March/early April, with a second weekly CMF flight operating from early February.

Not dissimilar to the airline's Exeter operation (although not all the routes are the same as those to be operated from CWL) which has been operating for several ski seasons.

It's very good news for the airport and the aircraft size (Dash 8-400) is probably the right fit for CWL, at least to begin with.

 

[Em0866]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

This is good news and a good start by using this size of aircraft.....much easier to fill. I hope it will be a success and that Flybe will increase the S14 timetable too

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

This is good news and a good start by using this size of aircraft.....much easier to fill. I hope it will be a success and that Flybe will increase the S14 timetable too

I think the key is the amount of support the Wales Government through its arm's length airport company is prepared to give.

I would be very surprised if the WG hasn't made Flybe a very tempting offer to put on these winter flights at a time when the airline is cutting back across at least part of its network this winter. Given Flybe's well-documented problems since flotation I cannot see them taking a punt on these at this time without some copper-bottomed guarantee from the airport company.

CWL supporters have been talking about Germany and France. In fact, Flybe's direct German flights to the UK are very limited in routes and although France has around 17 routes most are seasonal, leisure orientated and often just weekly or 2 x weekly. Perhaps even more surprising - it was to me when I checked - Flybe only serves Alicante, Malaga, Barcelona and Palma in Spain, all routes that are already operated at CWL by other airlines, notably Vueling.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Re: Cardiff Airport - Main Thread

[textarea]'Cardiff airport will need to fight for every passenger it can get'

The politically toxic issue of where new airport hub capacity should be located in the UK, being too difficult a decision for politicians to make, has been given to an Airports Commission set up by the UK Government and led by Sir Howard Davies.

The Western Gateway Group submitted a proposal to the commission based on an expanded Cardiff Airport linked to London by a high speed rail line (HS3).

Before the end of the year the Davies Commission will publish a short list of options for future runway capacity, but we now have strong indications as to what those options might be.

Sir Howard doesn’t think that regional airports – proposals were also submitted by Birmingham Airport – can provide the extra capacity that the UK needs.

He believes that new runways will need to be built in the south east of England, which suggests new runways at either Heathrow, Gatwick or Stansted.

Sir Howard is still undecided about a new airport in the Thames Estuary, the so called Boris Island.[/textarea]
Full report at: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/b ... ry-6223439

This newspaper article was written by aviation expert (the newspaper's description, not necessarily mine) Martin Evans who is regularly featured in the South Wales news media when aviation is discussed.

Mr Evans goes on to discuss what he sees as a need for a long haul airport in the west of Britain and believes that CWL is the place. He says that such things as improved surface connectivity and devolved APD powers are required.

He comes up with an interesting argument for devolving APD to the Wales Government when he says, 'To not give Wales control of important tax varying powers to counter the improved connectivity being provided for England would signal that the UK Government does not consider it important to have prosperity throughout the whole of the UK.'

He knows full well that not all of England would benefit from improved connectivity any more than Wales would but, like some police officers in the news for allegedly presenting a one-sided view of a subject (don't politicians do this all the time?), he's not going to draw attention to inconvenient matters that don't support his argument.