Cardiff: General Airport Discussion & Updates

[Jerry]

There seems to be a mentality that Cardiff and Cardiff only should serve the whole of wales,

Cardiff is Wales only international airport, it's Wales national airport so there has too be a part where it serves the whole of Wales (despite the challenges of lack of infrastructure) and realistically that's going too be as an access point internationally for inbound tourism for the most part. We have a beautiful country that we should be advertising too the world and saying come and visit and that includes the north, south, west and midlands. Places like Eryri national park, Bannau Brychienog national park, our coastline, our castles and many more and Cardiff airport can play a role in that through hub routes like Amsterdam and fingers crossed Doha again and hopefully we'll see the return of Aer Lingus on Dublin in the future boosting transatlantic capability. Realistically a direct route too the USA is unlikely though.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

Seriously folks. That will never happen. Let's get back to reality.

 

[Llandudno]

Cardiff is Wales only international airport, it's Wales national airport so there has too be a part where it serves the whole of Wales (despite the challenges of lack of infrastructure) and realistically that's going too be as an access point internationally for inbound tourism for the most part. We have a beautiful country that we should be advertising too the world and saying come and visit and that includes the north, south, west and midlands. Places like Eryri national park, Bannau Brychienog national park, our coastline, our castles and many more and Cardiff airport can play a role in that through hub routes like Amsterdam and fingers crossed Doha again and hopefully we'll see the return of Aer Lingus on Dublin in the future boosting transatlantic capability. Realistically a direct route too the USA is unlikely though.

Cardiff may well be Wales’ only international airport, but seriously, insinuating it’s an ‘all wales’ airport is stretching that perception just a little.

Look, I’m Welsh. There’s a lot of Welsh Pride and the aim to promote wales, I get it. But putting the serious and possibly boring hat on, Cardiff is not an airport to serve North Wales. The numbers using Cardiff that are either to, or from, North Wales must be in the tens or hundreds per year at most. The local airports for North wales are Liverpool and Manchester, while the ‘southern’ end of North wales also have Birmingham as a reasonable option.

The Welsh tourism board can, and often do, promote Manchester and Liverpool airports as gateways to North Wales, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Just because your promoting travel via an English airport doesn’t suddenly make you less Welsh, or a traitor, or suddenly less proud of wales.

It’s great that Cardiff has an airport, but the people of South Wales that support CWL need to understand that Cardiff doesn’t serve North Wales. It’s a South Wales and South west England airport. The airports for the North of wales are in England. And that’s just the way it is.

So I stand by my original point. United Airlines will not be serving Cardiff purely, or spurred on because of the Wrexham short sponsorship, and like I say, sorry if it offends, but it’s a flight of fancy if you do think there’s a chance it could happen.

Once again, Cardiff is Wales’ only international airport, but it’s certainly not an all wales airport. And that needs to be accepted.

 

[Jerry]

Once again, Cardiff is Wales’ only international airport, but it’s certainly not an all wales airport. And that needs to be accepted.

Well we'll just have to disagree on that.

 

[Llandudno]

Well we'll just have to disagree on that.

But what do you disagree on? Aside from nationalistic pride, how can you argue that an airport 4 hours away is better placed to serve and promote a location that can be reached in as little as 30 minutes from 2 closer airports?

I don’t know what I’m missing because as a north wales resident reaching their 40’s, Cardiff airport has never been, nor likely to be an airport of choice for me, nor the million or so other residents in the area? I’m sorry but I really cannot see any tangible argument as to why Cardiff airport should be promoted as the entry/exit point for north wales when there are at least 3 closer, more connected and better facilities airports than Cardiff. Again, Cardiff is not an ‘all wales’ airport. It’s a South Wales airport it’s really not a viable North wales option airport. And I say that as someone who lives here.

 

[Jerry]

But what do you disagree on? Aside from nationalistic pride, how can you argue that an airport 4 hours away is better placed to serve and promote a location that can be reached in as little as 30 minutes from 2 closer airports?

I don’t know what I’m missing because as a north wales resident reaching their 40’s, Cardiff airport has never been, nor likely to be an airport of choice for me, nor the million or so other residents in the area? I’m sorry but I really cannot see any tangible argument as to why Cardiff airport should be promoted as the entry/exit point for north wales when there are at least 3 closer, more connected and better facilities airports than Cardiff. Again, Cardiff is not an ‘all wales’ airport. It’s a South Wales airport it’s really not a viable North wales option airport. And I say that as someone who lives here.

If look at my reply my focus was on inbound tourism into the country and that includes the northern part of it.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

Well we'll just have to disagree on that.

It's almost like saying Southend Airport serves North England.
Just because CWL is Wales only Airport, does not mean geographically it serves the whole country. If there was a big wall separating Wales and England then people all over Wales would have to use CWL. But there isn't.
Mid/Mid-west Wales (Aberystwyth etc) may attract some passengers as it's quicker to drive to CWL than BHX, but numbers from North Wales to CWL would be minimal given the flight options available from LPL, MAN and BHX.
The reality is CWL-America would be a very niche route with limited demand that wouldn't result in a highly profitable route, with other options available from bigger Airports.

If look at my reply my focus was on inbound tourism into the country and that includes the northern part of it.

But then you'd have to have package holidays from American Tour Operators that would do a tour of Wales and sustain a couple of flights a week. There just isn't the demand for that.
Cosmos have done a Wales coach tour for years, it's very seasonal, people come from all over and fly into hubs.
Americans making a visit to Wales would likely want to see more of the UK as well, especially London.

 

[Jerry]

The reality is CWL-America would be a very niche route with limited demand that wouldn't result in a highly profitable route, with other options available from bigger Airports

That's why I think the focus has too be on hubs like Amsterdam and Dublin and marketing Wales as the whole destination for peoples holidays, solo travellers, families, couples, adventurers. Not as an add on to a holiday in England and London. Using the long windy roads through Wales as part of the holiday.
A direct route to the USA isn't going to happen unless it's heavily subsidised.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

A direct route to the USA isn't going to happen unless it's heavily subsidised

Which also has no bearing on United sponsoring a team based in North Wales.
If it was a national team then the conversation might be a bit different.

 

[Jerry]

Gutted i missed this, CWL got a visit by 3 retiring RAF C130s yesterday. I think they'd participated in the Kings birthday flypast.

 

[Jerry]

Interesting evidence session from Cardiff Airport and the Welsh government too the Senedd's Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee. Mostly it was about the finances, the relationship between the airport, the holding company and Welsh government (this was emphasised in relation to Qatar Airways). The airport is predicted too break even in 2026 and make enough profit too pay back Welsh government by 2029. Obviously passenger numbers were discussed and the airports performance was compared too other airports big and small. Usual 'we call Easyjet every year and they say no' that now seems too apply too Jet2 as well! With the exception of the non terminal parts Masterplan 2040 has been paused but it sounds like the airport is working on a new 30 year plan. The airport now runs the fuel farm and is in discussion with airlines about using sustainable aviation fuel and providing incentives for airlines too use more environmentally friendly aircraft as well. Route wise Spencer did seem too emphasise that a lot of the airports lost capacity and flight frequency is on domestic routes. Edinburgh, Glasgow and Jersey were mentioned (only real option for those routes is Loganair imo) and that while there is demand for flights at Cardiff airlines mention that they feel that they can make more money elsewhere, with Wizz he mentioned that they said that and wanted too protect slots at Gatwick.
The session starts at 09.30 and runs until the end.

Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee - 22/06/2023

The Senedd is the democratically elected body that represents the interests of Wales and its people, makes laws for Wales, agrees Welsh taxes and holds the Welsh Government to account.

www.senedd.tv

 

[Jerry]

Cardiff Airport was thrilled to welcome the Red Arrows and Eurofighter Typhoon last Saturday.✈️

Many thanks to Ioan Williams for capturing these fantastic pictures!

We would love to see your shots of the Red Arrows and Typhoons in the comments below. ✈️📸

https://twitter.com/x/status/1676195213407035393

 

[Jerry]

One Air G-UNET Cargo 747 400 arrived from Ostend a couple of hours ago. I wonder if this is engine maintenance?

 

[Jerry]

As an entry port into Wales this doesn't help Cardiff grow especially with city routes

Wales doing badly at attracting overseas tourists, say MPs

Martin Shipton Wales is punching below its weight in attracting international tourists, according to a report from the Welsh Affairs Committee of the House of Commons. The cross-party committee concluded that the country lacks a distinct brand, with efforts to market the nation to international...

nation.cymru

 

[Em0866]

No surprise here. I read the article on the BBC website. Wales doesn't have a recognisable brand overseas, unlike England, Scotland or even Northern Ireland. Why is that? That's the $64,000 question. I've been through LHR many times and looking at their British trashy souvenir shop, plenty for the home countries and Ireland but nothing from Wales. It's not a time to be pointing a finger on who is to blame, but to think forward and find ways to combat the negativity of agents who put off overseas visitors coming to Wales.

I don't think that the answer is more flights into CWL either, although this would help a bit. Making sure Wales is promoted at various entry points across the UK would be an easy win. LHR, LGW, BHX, MAN spring to mind as well as ferry ports like Dover and Portsmouth.

The answer goes much deeper than this and it won't be a quick fix either. It could be a step in the right direction though.

 

[StanMan]

No doubt the outcomes of this report are fair and accurate. However, if correct, one of the ways to remedy this situation is to use the influence of others....such as Qatar Airways. Maybe the investment in QR from a marketing perspective isn't as 'wasted' as some (critics) would want us to believe.

 

[Jerry]

Why is that?

In my mind it's actually quite simple, Wales is viewed and sold often as a region of England, it's infrastructure and economy has been developed that way and unlike Ireland and Scotland it doesn't have large diasporas across the world that help too promote it as unique and distinct from England.

I don't think that the answer is more flights into CWL either, although this would help a bit. Making sure Wales is promoted at various entry points across the UK would be an easy win. LHR, LGW, BHX, MAN spring to mind as well as ferry ports like Dover and Portsmouth

And I think this is part of the problem with the thinking of let's not build our own direct connections too the world, let's use England's and encourage people to travel to Wales via England. That doesn't help with creating a unique distinct brand for Wales as a destination in it's own right but adds too the add on to a holiday in England type thinking.

No doubt the outcomes of this report are fair and accurate. However, if correct, one of the ways to remedy this situation is to use the influence of others....such as Qatar Airways. Maybe the investment in QR from a marketing perspective isn't as 'wasted' as some (critics) would want us to believe.

Marketing is part of it. In developing the Wales as a destination in its own right and how you can access Wales directly with airlines like Qatar Airways flying into Wales.

 

[Jerry]

Just to add as well is that with the Welsh tourism economy maybe the focus is too much on self catering holiday lets and camping where international tourists prefer serviced accommodation.

 

[geoff]

The house of Commons Committee also pointed out the transport infrastructure in Wales, was sadly lacking in many ways, there is still lack of frequency on public transport between North and South Wales, and our roads from North to South leave a lot to be desired, and yet foreign travellers who spend their holidays here, have nothing but praise for our country.

 

[Jerry]

The house of Commons Committee also pointed out the transport infrastructure in Wales, was sadly lacking in many ways, there is still lack of frequency on public transport between North and South Wales, and our roads from North to South leave a lot to be desired, and yet foreign travellers who spend their holidays here, have nothing but praise for our country.

Wales as a country is a beautiful place and has lots of history but unfortunately big parts of it are just under developed with a lack of infrastructure. Also we don't seem to have a direct bus service between north and south and is TrawsCymru advertised enough as options.