You can imagine the slogan "come and invest in Wales" followed by "You will have to fly via England"
Unfortunately, that is very much the case at the moment, or was pre-pandemic. North Wales is overwhelmingly geared to MAN and also LPL, with the remainder of the country's travellers using airports in the south of England and BHX in substantial numbers. Long-haul is probably inevitable and thus the London airports, mainly LHR, are the main conduits for that type of travel to/from Wales, but CWL sees less 'Welsh' traffic than BRS as well.

The positive news is that until the pandemic intruded CWL had been seeing healthy annual passenger gains and had also attracted Qatar Airways. It had reached just under 1.7 mppa, still less than its pre-recession best of just under 2.1 million in 2007, but definitely on the right track.

The hope now is that Wizz Air will establish itself and grow at CWL which, once the pandemic effects begin to recede across the industry, should see 2 mppa very much in the airport's sights. According to an aviation analyst giving evidence to a Welsh Government committee a year or so ago 2mppa is the total at which the disproportionality of fixed costs at the airport should largely disappear.

I mentioned BRS earlier. Had there been no pandemic that airport would have been close to its 10 mppa passenger cap by the end of this year. If it is not allowed to grow further then other airports in the south-west corner of Britain, notably CWL and EXT, would almost certainly benefit with further growth taking place there that might otherwise have gone to BRS.

The Welsh Government and its airport company are understandably strongly opposed to BRS's expansion plans and formally objected to the local authority that rejected the airport's planning application. BRS is in the process of appealing to the Planning Inspectorate and it seems certain that the WG and its airport company will make their case again.

Below is the full objection made by the Welsh Government to North Somerset Unitary Authority - from the public record. The CWL airport company made a broadly similar submission.

Welsh Government Department of Economic Infrastructure

North Somerset Council (NSC) declared a climate emergency at the beginning of 2019. Its commitment, as set out in its Climate Emergency Strategy, is to be a carbon neutral council and a carbon neutral area by 2030. The seven key principles of the Climate Emergency Strategy include, inter alia, reducing emissions from transport.

The application fails to acknowledge the important role Cardiff International Airport plays in serving South Wales and the South West. Cardiff Airport is notably smaller than Bristol Airport but, crucially, it has capacity and aspiration to meet growth in the region.

Presently there is an imbalance in serving air passenger demand in the South West and South Wales region. Bristol airport is already the third largest airport in the UK outside of London. This causes unsustainable travel patterns and unnecessary transport impacts on the strategic road network (SRN) including the M4 and M5, as well as the local road network in South Wales and the South West, particularly rural North Somerset.

Cardiff International Airport’s scale and market penetration is less strong, with unsustainable ‘leakage’ of custom to airports further afield, including Bristol Airport.

A rebalancing of airport related travel in the region would obviate the need for additional development at Bristol airport. Conversely, an increase in capacity at Bristol airport merely serves to reinforce the existing imbalance and increase unsustainable travel patterns of passengers from beyond the South West, such as South Wales. Rural North Somerset is ill equipped to accommodate an exacerbation of the existing level of unsustainable transport movements.

With no expansion of Bristol Airport currently factored into the DfT’s aviation sector model, the proposed expansion should be reviewed by Central Government.

The value creation ascribed to Bristol Airport’s expansion is not newly created value but will likely be displaced from existing airports, as all other airports within the South West and South Wales have capacity.

The application proposals seek to increase market share, through displacement, despite Bristol Airport’s already demonstrably healthy market penetration. This runs counter to, in particular, Policy CS1 and the Council’s Climate Change Emergency Strategy and Strategic Action Plan. The rationale for the development is not considered to be an appropriate approach to managing existing transport infrastructure in the South West region sustainably.

In respect of Site-Specific Policy DM50 “very special circumstances” which may otherwise justify the demonstrable harm the development will have on, inter alia, the Green Belt and wider environment have not been demonstrated.

We reiterate Cardiff Airport and others can readily serve increased passenger numbers in South Wales and the South West.

It is noteworthy that many representations to the airport proposals fundamentally question why the airport needs to expand its capacity.

The application does not demonstrate the very special circumstances which may otherwise provide justification for Green Belt development, contrary Policy DM50. Based on need

Policy CS1 makes it clear North Somerset Council is committed to reducing carbon emissions and tackling climate change, mitigating further impacts and supporting adaptation to its effects. The development will be to the detriment of environmental considerations, such as ecological, landscape, air quality, transport and noise impacts; all of which are negatively impacted and require mitigation which could otherwise be avoided.

The Welsh Government has already made significant investment in terminal improvements and route development at Cardiff International Airport. The application’s cursory consideration of the potential of alternative airports to meet passenger demand is not credible.

 
How many airports in Europe are state owned and how many of those actually make money. They are seen as a state assets You could argue that money spent on CWL is no different to the vast sums spent on railways and subsidising buses and bus passes. The Traws Cymru long distance bus network must loose a fortune. When ever I have travelled on the T5 service from Haverfordwest to Aberystwyth most passengers use bus passes. The buses may be fairly full but they must be loss making big time.
 
Unfortunately, that is very much the case at the moment, or was pre-pandemic. North Wales is overwhelmingly geared to MAN and also LPL, with the remainder of the country's travellers using airports in the south of England and BHX in substantial numbers. Long-haul is probably inevitable and thus the London airports, mainly LHR, are the main conduits for that type of travel to/from Wales, but CWL sees less 'Welsh' traffic than BRS as well.
But that's outbound traffic in which Wales is essentially a victim of geography and the lack of development of airports in other part's of the country, when trying to attract inbound investment and tourism for the whole country it doesn't look good to say that we have no airports and you can't actually physically fly into Wales. We won't be able to promote Wales without an airport.
Could you imagine scenarios where the teams for the Champions league match or Six Nations fly or dignitaries for the NATO summit aren't able to fly into Wales and have to arrive in the neighbouring country? Might as well hold those events there!
 
But that's outbound traffic in which Wales is essentially a victim of geography and the lack of development of airports in other part's of the country, when trying to attract inbound investment and tourism for the whole country it doesn't look good to say that we have no airports and you can't actually physically fly into Wales. We won't be able to promote Wales without an airport.
Could you imagine scenarios where the teams for the Champions league match or Six Nations fly or dignitaries for the NATO summit aren't able to fly into Wales and have to arrive in the neighbouring country? Might as well hold those events there!
I don't disagree. My previous post (#2,601) was merely to point out the situation that exists, or did pre-pandemic, not that I think it should. I hoped the tenor of my previous post was empathetic to CWL's situation.
 
And considering todays news about the link road I really don’t think they do care.
That's always been a contentious build. The locals don't want it. It's also a marginal seat for May's election. Maybe a new government will look at it again and VoG council might still try and get funding from elsewhere.
 
What is the general view of local residents and local authorities about CWL and particularly any expansion? Is there any substantial opposition to the airport growing, particularly organised opposition?

We see with many airports in England that expansion plans are met with very significant organised opposition. STN, LBA, BRS and SOU are all currently seeking to expand in various ways, although in LBA's case they want a new state-of-the-art terminal to replace a less efficient one for which they already have planning permission, and all are running up against well organised opposition groups.

I did a count-up of various local authorities in the area opposed to BRS's expansion plans. There are 17 bottom tier authorities - that's town councils and parish councils - in the immediate area and only three support the expansion. Of the eight higher tier county councils and unitary authorities, including the combined authority for the region, four support the expansion and three oppose it with the other neutral. Bristol City Council recently did an about-turn altering its previous support to opposition.
 
What is the general view of local residents and local authorities about CWL and particularly any expansion? Is there any substantial opposition to the airport growing, particularly organised opposition?

We see with many airports in England that expansion plans are met with very significant organised opposition. STN, LBA, BRS and SOU are all currently seeking to expand in various ways, although in LBA's case they want a new state-of-the-art terminal to replace a less efficient one for which they already have planning permission, and all are running up against well organised opposition groups.

I did a count-up of various local authorities in the area opposed to BRS's expansion plans. There are 17 bottom tier authorities - that's town councils and parish councils - in the immediate area and only three support the expansion. Of the eight higher tier county councils and unitary authorities, including the combined authority for the region, four support the expansion and three oppose it with the other neutral. Bristol City Council recently did an about-turn altering its previous support to opposition.
I don't think there's opposition to more flights from Cardiff but there is to a business park being built next door to the airport.
 
That's always been a contentious build. The locals don't want it. It's also a marginal seat for May's election. Maybe a new government will look at it again and VoG council might still try and get funding from elsewhere.
I’m surprised the vale is still held by Labour to be honest. It’s been tory since 2010 for the UK parliament and I think it’s quite possible it could finally fall.

there is no joined up thinking from Welsh Government whatsoever. They declare a climate emergency, cancel the M4 relief road, cancel a potential great access road and then question as to why Cardiff airport isn’t working. Wales isn’t a very attractive place to invest.
 
I’m surprised the vale is still held by Labour to be honest. It’s been tory since 2010 for the UK parliament and I think it’s quite possible it could finally fall.
I expect it's down to voter demographics. Welsh elections are different, voter turnout is lower but people's voting is different. Jane Hutt has held it since 1999 so i guess it'll be down to how popular she is in the constituency and i believe she campaigned against the road. Although the road would make it easier to get to and help alleviate congestion at Culverhouse cross if the airport provides people with the flights they want they'll get to the airport no matter how more difficult it could be. Airports like Bristol and Leeds show that.
 
I would like to know what Andrew RT Davies would do to assist the airport if he became first minister?.
We all remember how little enthusiasm Alan Cairns had in helping the airport.
It is so easy for opposition partys to criticize the WG for what it is doing to support the airport.
As others have said, i think some people want to make political points without giving alternatives.
 
I would like to know what Andrew RT Davies would do to assist the airport if he became first minister?.
We all remember how little enthusiasm Alan Cairns had in helping the airport.
It is so easy for opposition partys to criticize the WG for what it is doing to support the airport.
As others have said, i think some people want to make political points without giving alternatives.
This is the Conservative's 5 point plan
The plan comprises:

  • · Supporting route development, prioritising a direct flight link to the USA and to Manchester
  • · Developing a new marketing strategy for the airport
  • · Improving transport links to the airport to make the airport more accessible by investing in better road, rail and public transport links
  • · Investing in the airport's capital infrastructure to enable the airport to diversify and generate new sources of revenue.
  • · Working with the UK Government to devolve and then scrap Air Passenger Duty

  • https://www.conservatives.wales/news/welsh-conservatives-five-point-plan-cardiff-airport
  • I've seen no comments about the link road to the M4 from the Conservative's.
 
there is no joined up thinking from Welsh Government whatsoever. They declare a climate emergency, cancel the M4 relief road, cancel a potential great access road and then question as to why Cardiff airport isn’t working. Wales isn’t a very attractive place to invest
Cardiff Airport isn't working because there isn't a direct road from the M4. Any new road infrastructure will make minimal benefit for passenger numbers.
Cheap flights to where people want to go at decent times is what brings passengers in, in that order too.
If access was the issue , so many Welsh people wouldn't choose Bristol.
Better rail and public road transport links is what is needed. There's no direct rail link from the West and Rhoose has served its purpose from the East but again often means a change at Central. The bus link to Cardiff was good but suffered because of low passenger numbers. Unless the money is there to fund it, with passengers numbers as they I can't see it working.
 
Last edited:
This is the Conservative's 5 point plan
The plan comprises:

  • · Supporting route development, prioritising a direct flight link to the USA and to Manchester
  • · Developing a new marketing strategy for the airport
  • · Improving transport links to the airport to make the airport more accessible by investing in better road, rail and public transport links
  • · Investing in the airport's capital infrastructure to enable the airport to diversify and generate new sources of revenue.
  • · Working with the UK Government to devolve and then scrap Air Passenger Duty

  • https://www.conservatives.wales/news/welsh-conservatives-five-point-plan-cardiff-airport
  • I've seen no comments about the link road to the M4 from the Conservative's.
Which is what annoys me about the Tories. Especially Andrew RT Davies.

- A direct USA link wouldn't work from CWL. You have to look at what works at other regional Airports before seeing what would work at CWL.
- Manchester is also questionable.
- Maybe a new marketing strategy would work, but they don't specify what that would be and I have very little doubt that they would even know where to start. Its the CWL management that try and get routes, not Labour. So I don't see how the Tories could do it better.
- Hasn't the Airport already invested, hence the money given to it by the WG, and hasn't it already diversified over recent years. Again, what else could be done?

Let the experts run the Airport.
What the WG need to do, regardless of which party, is to promote Wales, not the Airport. The Airport is the needed access point in to Wales, but people need a reason to come here. We have such a beautiful country that has tourism potential that I personally feel is undersold around the world. QR started to change that, and I'm sure there were attempts to put Wales on the map, but there's so much more that could be done.
 
There really isn't much difference in what the airport is doing right now and what the Tories want except put it back into private ownership.
I do remember that in an interview Andrew RT Davies said that it's about airlines not airports so i'd assume they would be looking to subsidise airlines which would come under state rules but i don't see how that is different to what the airport is doing now.
They mention APD but if the UK government is willing to devolve it for a Tory WG then denial of APD devolution is then a party political issue and not to protect English airports as UK gov have said previously.

Investing more money into Visit Wales to help promote Wales home and abroad, teaming up with vloggers (local and foreign) to get travel videos about Wales out there onto the internet and airlines like KLM/Skyteam, Ryanair, Wizz and look to airlines like Loganair and Aer Lingus who yes don't fly to Wales but could help to drive Scottish and Irish inbound tourism.
 
I see on the other site, that there has been a lot said about the marketing of routes from CWL, or the lack of marketing and advertising, I was wondering if the personnel within the marketing staff have been put on furlough?
 
I see on the other site, that there has been a lot said about the marketing of routes from CWL, or the lack of marketing and advertising, I was wondering if the personnel within the marketing staff have been put on furlough?
They are still active on twitter and instagram and facebook but not every day from what i've seen. If you listen to the other site it's as if they've not posted for a year.
 
View attachment 23157

On the basis of winter not looking as bleak as expected with Wizz being year round, I've compiled the Winter schedule by carrier and compared to seats available back in Winter 2019 based on 1 week in December from on a frequency post prior to W19 on this forum.
Total seats available W21 - 16390
Total seats available W19 - 24964
Total actual passengers Dec 2019 - 77382 (Approx 19,300 per week)

There's a difference in approx 8500 weekly seats in 2021 compared to 2019. IF DOH returns in 2022 and a new Airline is found for DUB, EDI and CDG based on the 2019 figures that's approx 9500 weekly seats.

2019 Routes and frequencies:
VLY x10 = 380
BHD x7 = 1092
ORK x2 = 312
DUB x19 = 2964
EDI x18 = 2808
GLA x6 = 936
JER x3 = 468
NCL x5 = 290
Total Domestic = 9250
AMS x20 = 3664
CDG x8 = 1248
GVA x1 = 156
CMF x1 = 156
ALC x5 = 1836
AGP x2 = 756
LPA x1 = 378
ACE x2 = 756
TFS x5 = 1890
PFO x1 = 378
MLA x2 = 756
Total Europe = 11974
DOH x5 = 2540
MBJ x1 = 600
BGI x1 = 600
Total International = 3740
Total weekly seats W19 = 24964

Seats by Airline W 2021
Eastern = 670
KLM = 3664
Ryanair = 756
TUI = 3780
Vueling = 1080
Wizz = 6440
 
Hopefully some of the ex Flybe routes will be reinstated by then, attracting Wizz has given the airport a 39% boost in seats for the winter.
 
I've been told that there should be 6 PPE flights in all. So should be another 4.
 

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All checked in for my flight to Sydney from Manchester via Heathrow. Been waiting for this trip for nearly a year and now tomorrow I'll finally head to Australia and New Zealand!
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survived a redundancy scenario where I work for the 3rd time. Now it looks likely I will get to cover work for 2 other teams.. Pretty please for a payrise? That would be a no and so stay on the min wage.
Live in Market Bosworth and take each day as it comes......
Well it looks like I'm off to Australia and New Zealand next year! Booked with BA from Manchester via Heathrow with a stop in Singapore and returning with Air New Zealand and BA via LAX to Heathrow. Will circumnavigate the globe and be my first trans-Pacific flight. First long haul flight with BA as well and of course Air NZ.
15 years at the same company was reached the weekend before last. Not sure how they will mark the occasion apart from the compulsory payirse to minimum wage (1st rise for 2 years; i was 15% above it back then!)

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