Future Infrastructure Developments

[White Heather]

I guess it would yes, xboy999. So it would need to be at least 3 storeys high from car park level on the North elevation, (or built on stilts, again as someone else mentioned). I do think though that it would be the answer to many of the current problems at LBA and remove the need for lots of buses cluttering the apron area up. They could even go in for some of those golf buggies for people with mobility problems.

 

[tleeds]

I think I, amongst a few others discussed such a scheme White Heather.
I think that such a scheme is at-least 5 years away. The airport are currently tackling the over-crowding of the current terminal and when the re-furbishment of the current terminal and the extension in front of the current terminal are built, I think this will be the next step for them. Once this scheme has been built it should surely attract a few new airlines to LBA and a fair few new routes.
You would need around 3 stories - which actually bode well with the current layout. That steep hill leading down to the, quite frankly, wasted car-park could be the perfect area to put it onto stilts. The top floor would need to be Departures with possibly air-bridges. The middle floor would have to be an arrivals concourse leading to the current terminal and the bottom floor would have to be for baggage and vehicles. You could leave the road beneath this White Heather.
This scheme would have to be constructed amongst some new aircraft stands, possibly along Twy N, opposite holding points C and D to allow more aircraft to use the airport at one time.

I do know that both these two schemes were featured in the council’s proposals for the airport leading up to 2020 and the airport, when I asked during my school's Year10 work experience week, said they were 'Still Active' so it wouldn't surprise me if these propositions were in the airport's new master-plan.

 

[White Heather]

Hope so tomleeds. Sorry I didn't mean to sound as though this was something I thought of - I did indicate that others had posted this first - but at the time wasn't sure who. One thing that I do not think we will see is more Air Bridges, simply because I have heard the airport directors rule them out in response to direct questions about more being installed. This was purely due to the cost of each one, which was considerable, coupled with the fact that some low cost airlines won't use them (step forward Ryanair). I understood that airlines using the Air Bridges paid for the pleasure of doing so (helping the airport recoup it's expenditure when installing them), and clearly such charges do not feature in the Business Plan of some LOCO carriers. I suspect that any future extensions on the airside will be designed to allow for Air Bridges to be easily added in the future, should the demand and funding be there to do so.

 

[Aviador]

The airport has already said it is re-writing it's Masterplan in line with the governments requirements for regular updates. I think the airport will be re-writing it in more ways than one.

I would imagine we're going to see a very different masterplan update released this time around. The escalating fuel costs and rapidly changing domestic air travel scene will inevitably change many of the airports previous plans.

So far as air-bridges are concerned, the airport management has previously said that no additional air bridges will be added but as White Heather has already mentioned, I would think the airport will build any future walkway with the potential to add air-bridges at a later date.

The airport is moving more towards providing for low-cost airlines as opposed to full service airlines and I think this is likely to continue for the foreseeable future. For this reason I think the only way we are likely to see more air-bridges is with the introduction of more regular large aircraft types.

The airport may re-consider the use of air-bridges should they gain any additional full service operators. I would think the eventual introduction of the Boeing 777 by Pakistan International Airlines will raise the question. There's clearly at least one other long haul route that would definitely work from Leeds Bradford airport so it's not totally unrealistic to think it wont ever happen.

 

[tleeds]

Yes I suppose so Aviador. I had'nt thought of it that way as, quite rightly, you said that that LOCO carriers are the way forward.
They may do what Liverpool Airport has done. The little walkway to the 'newer' apron doesn't have walkways but stair wells. Such a scheme would be perfect for LBA and, as you said, they could introduce walkways at a later date, if they were to be used by future longer-haul operations.

Sorry White Heather, I didn't mean to sound rude or anything.

 

[White Heather]

You didn't tomleeds! I just didn't want it to sound like I was putting forward something that others had said already so wanted to clarify that.

 

[tleeds]

Ohh, Okaay White Heather

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

If today is anything on par with july/august, LBA really need to invest in some tempoary air con or get the one they have WORKING! Cause i tell you what, staff will start to faint no matter how much water etc you have in your system, and passengers are very uncomfortable! Very uncomfortable. The amount of complaints i've had is stupid. I couldn't care less about the fact they are about to invest loads this winter, they don't do a MINOR investment for this summer they'll be lucky on reaching 3.5 million next year as passengers will be put off very put off. Already had 5 people go to me they are flying from MAN or DSA if this is 'how were treated'.

 

[Aviador]

I can't disagree with you there nicholas1992 but as always these things cost money so I can't see them doing anything now unless it can become part of the wider scheme of improvements set to start in the winter all being well.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Small investment for long term gains. It's pure economic sense. Centeral was nice & cool, check in halls don't really need it, why should departures be a human oven!? Considering PAX spend the most time in there before there flight.

 

[White Heather]

nicholas1992, I share your concerns, but don't think that Air conditioning is a small investment, because I can assure you it isn't. It costs a fortune to install and is very expensive to run. I would have thought it was already installed, but probably in need of replacement. There is no chance that if it does, they will do anything with it now, because an Air Conditioning system has to be designed to fit the space it is cooling, and as we all know that space is about to be completely refurbished and enlarged. Any Air Con system will therefore have to be re-designed and re-installed, with a larger condenser unit capable of cooling the new, enlarged, departure lounge. If LBA were to try and do it now, not only would they entirely waste their money, but by the time they had got the system designed and a contractor tendered, and the system installed, it would be time to rip it out again.

Obviously the best solution would be to make any existing system work again, but like anything else, whether or not that is possible, or cost effective, would depend on what the problem is. Yet again, it could be very expensive and literally be only for a couple of months - a bit like putting a new engine in your car and then sending it to the crusher.

Incidentally, I have been managing building projects for the past 18 years, so what I am saying may be unpalatable, but very true. As for passengers flying from DSA instead, well that is fine provided they want to fly with Thomson or Wizz, otherwise their selection of flights remains somewhat limited at the moment.

 

[Seasider]

Passengers always say that they will never fly again with a certain Airline/Airport/Tour Company when things go wrong. Experience tells me that they will.

 

[rmac]

Whilst passing the airport the other day I watched streams of arriving passengers making for buses, coaches and taxis. They had all crossed the old pick up area which is now empty and a bit messy and I wondered what impression was given to new or infrequent users of the airport. If a large poster was erected showing that this area was to be the new part of the upgraded terminal most would accept this temporary state of affairs. Does anyone think it would be a good idea, or might the airport authorities be planning such an advertising project? Additionally passengers who had thought that the present terminal was small and cramped might now be pleased to see that improvements "are on the way" (hopefully) and a better impression of the airport and the region had been given. Advertising can be a good thing.

 

[tleeds]

Well the old pick-up area has been left like that for a few years, possibly 2 or 3, and so I would see no-point in erecting a poster/sign now. Terminal refurbishment is commencing this Winter, and so hopefully if the extension is built Winter 2012/2013 the sign would only be up less than 12months, as it would possibly have to be pulled down for the actual extension, knowing what the airport are like.

Also, I think that if passengers are made too aware of the refurbishment/extension construction they may be more inclined to travel from MAN or another airport to avoid getting caught up in all the mess, and that’s the last thing that LBA needs right now, passengers moving away!

 

[User0001]

Very nearly 2 years since the the 28 million £ terminal extension / improvement was given the go ahead and what has happened? Answer nothing! All through our history we've had little add ons and more little scruffy add ons. Guess what if it ever actually happens we'll be gettin another little add on. I read lbia's posts with interest and ask him if he's heard any slightly more encouraging news of late regarding the terminal? Yeah the council are completely useless at getting anything done and none airport owned car parking doesn't exactly help to raise cash but come on - What the heck has happened to Bridgepoints money? In these two years a terminal (full of shops) could have been built (for less money) to claw back our lost passengers. Yes there has been a recession but LBIA should be doing minimum 6 million passengers anyway so in actual fact the strategy was boosted, as competing airports have really suffered (MME, DSA, MAN etc). We could have set them back/caught up even further. If Bridgepoint want to make any money at LBIA they need to get lots and lots of passengers flowing through it for years to come.

Without being disrespectful to white heather (a fellow white i believe) surely it is time for you to accept that you in your meetings and me as part of the general public have been fobbed off and fobbed off and maybe even fed false information by those in charge? After all it is OUR airport and we deserve to know what is happening, when it is going to happen and what are Bridgepoint's REAL plans. If the next masterplan is anything like the last one, in terms of accuracy, its only use will be in the small room in my house!

disillusioned pete

 

[rmac]

In my experience 2 years is nothing with these things. Just reading about a retail/ office/hotel project on the edge of town (here) which was proposed, and has now full council backing and some Council funding some 5 years ago and so far not one sod of grass has been dug. The article says it is still to be built but the recession/downturn has slowed matters somewhat. I have been involved with very small building projects and 2 years can easily slip away. It is disappointing though when you really want to see things happening. The rail link to the airport to me is very important but how long is this taking..... probably many more years.

 

[Jordan-34092]

I can't see there being a rail link until 2020 the earliest, and when i mean by this time i mean the fact it will only just started to being developed. The airport is way below the what it should be for an airport of it sort. If bridgepoint think they are going to get more airlines to fly from LBA with more long haul routes, well they need to think again, until something is actually done other airlines wont be interested in operating in and out of LBA.

 

[White Heather]

Without being disrespectful to white heather (a fellow white i believe) surely it is time for you to accept that you in your meetings and me as part of the general public have been fobbed off and fobbed off and maybe even fed false information by those in charge? After all it is OUR airport and we deserve to know what is happening, when it is going to happen and what are Bridgepoint's REAL plans. If the next masterplan is anything like the last one, in terms of accuracy, its only use will be in the small room in my house!

Yes LUFC I am a fellow white - hence my user name.

However, I am sorry but I cannot accept I have been fobbed off as you put it. The LBA management have provided regular updates, which I have posted where I can, and they have also explained fully why they have not yet been in a position to commence work on the terminal, which I have also posted. They have done so in an open meeting in front of the press, so they are not trying to keep things quiet at all.

What you need to remember was that although the planning consent was given, the airport then had hoops and hurdles to jump relating to transport infrastructure before they were able to proceed, courtesy of Leeds City Council who for years did nothing about these issues, but of course demand Bridgepoint fund things they never would.

Once the transport issues were sorted, Bridgepoint were then able to move forward, but this co-incided with a serious (and I MEAN serious) downturn in the Aviation market, with domestic air travel hit very badly and other routes not doing too well either, plus the impact of the Icelandic Ash Cloud. Understandably, LBA management we concerned about where this was heading in terms of passenger numbers, whilst Bridgepoint were probably cautious about investing £28m before first of all seeing what impact there would be on LBA.

As it turns out the impact was less than most, helped by the arrival of a Ryanair base. Passenger figures are now increasing rapidly and the LBA management certainly recognise the need now to proceed. However, they do not hold the money, and Bridgepoint have other interests which are also competing for the funds. Whatever plans LBA have, they need to be signed off at Board level before proceeding , but as posted above, whilst nothing appeared to be happening, in fact the airport were continuing to draw up plans with their Consultants as to how the work could be done (and when) without the Airport being reduced to chaos. Obviously, it can not be done in the summer, so they have to wait until the Winter.

So, the latest is that they are likely to start on the terminal in October and have this first phase done by next summer, increasing the departure lounge capacity by 65%. Phase 2, when it happens, will be to expand the terminal outwards towards the parking drop off area, filling in the vacant 'bomb zone' area outside the terminal and leading to the appearance shown in the planning documents.

It is easy to write off Bridgepoint because things don't happen at the pace we would all like, but we all have to remember that ANY project can take a long time to come to fruition, but particularly one that has the ability to bring an airport to a standstill if it is not thought through. You also mention the terminal full of shops, but bear in mind at the moment the retail industry is also having a hard time and letting contracts to open shops in the airport in the present climate will be no straightforward manner. The last thing that LBA would want is to open a terminal extension project and have lots of shop units - empty.

I think, personally, that rather than knock Bridgepoint for taking so long to do the terminal work, we should be thinking that at least they are prepared to develop the airport at all, and do a better job than the Councils ever did. They inherited an airport that was barely managing to keep up with its passenger numbers and was in serious need of a major overhaul, both inside and outside the terminal, and you can't make silk out of a sows ear overnight, nor can you do everything at once.

Bridgepoint paid a record amount for a small(ish) regional airport. They are an investment company who will eventually sell LBA for a profit, but will only do so if they have rectified a good number of the problems, so why do you think they are not going to do it Pete? They are well aware that the terminal is hampering their chances of pulling in more airlines and that it gives a bad impression to passengers, and are determined to put that right, but ultimately Bridgepoint are a business and have share holders to answer to. Once they are convinced the time is right to drive home their current advantage in terms of passenger growth, they will do it. They have 3 years from when they got planning consent and are hardly likely to allow that deadline to pass, wasting all the time and money already spent, and hopefully they will soon be confirming a start date for later this year.

 

[User0001]

Hi, thanks for the reply white heather. You certainly remain positive and supportive of B'pnt. For me they are either completely skint or have incredibly poor short sighted management.
Yes the council are scandalous and useless and dropped them in it. Once the green light was given tho they should have flown into action (they'd already had two years to finalise plans).
The downturn did not affect the need for a terminal expansion 1 IOTA and was best to do at that stage with passengers dropping a little and lower building costs. I cannot stress that enough. Ryanair/Easy coming was not a coincidence but all part of the plan (you don't make money from landing fees anymore but pax spendind money in the terminal/carpark.)
Don't tell me B'pnt have other interests. They won the bid because they promised to do what the council couldn't - spend £28 million on a new terminal (as part of £70 million).
I applaud the route development team for doing their bit but there is no point going to a route conference every year when you've not built anywhere to put the pax or park the planes. Yesterday a RYR738 waited 10 minutes + on the apron because the TOM752 was late off stand because of the lack of flexibility of stands. Ryanair hate that.
Sorry but the time to proceed was 1 to 2 years ago and Bridgepoint's lethargy reminds me of the council so I hope Mode1 is right about the next 2 and a half years and so they can win me over again.

LUFC PETE

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Ryanair though LOVE to use Stand 8, and gates 6/7. They can use the others but wish to choose not to, so lets not go blaming bridgepoint. FR at the time your suggesting could of used a wide range of stands, but as it's FR and to keep them happy we have to give them Stand 8 as the top priority followed by stand 12/13. So the PAX can walk. So more FR fault for been so stubborn then bridgepoint.