Primera Air

[Creguk]

Wasn't the issue with United and AA their aging 757? And could the route sustain something 'bigger'? It's a real shame. I'd rather now hear nothing about Primera until Summer 2018 and hopefully some of this will die down. It will take a real push to get the service going again though; something that I don't think the Primera team appear good at! Marketing and communication don't appear to be their strong point.

 

[Creguk]

I know we talk about yields and LF, but is an average of 70% LF good for this route?

 

[Coathanger16]

Whilst yes this is disappointing news, I'd much rather Primera do this than cancel adhoc services throughout the rest of the season and get a reputation of "will they cancel our flight today". At least passengers know for certain now and have weeks and months to re-book rather than get told a few days in advance.

Yes they will get a bad reputation for this, but remember they also have short haul flights still operating. How are those being perceived by the public? Perhaps having had what little TATL flight we had being operated by the National 757 will allow any bad memories to be associated with that and be forgotten when Primera come back next year with new A321NEO's.

As I said, disappointing but not entirely surprising. With the benefit of hindsight it would have been much better for Primera to launch just short haul this year and have left long haul until next year - for BHX anyway.

And could the route sustain something 'bigger'?

In July 2016 when both United and American were operating, combined they carried 13,700 pax - or around 220 pax per day in each direction:

American 767-300ER: 209
American 787-8: 226
Delta 767-300ER: 226
Delta A330-200: 234
United 767-300ER: 214
United 767-400ER: 242

So yes the route could technically have sustained a 'proper' wide body. No doubt with a better hard product that comes with a wide body even more passengers might have been attracted to use it.

 

[Creguk]

You have to feel for the staff too. Pilots, cabin crew etc.

 

[Purebeef]

I am not so sure, this is all about deals, and I am in no doubt primera would have been given a incentive. Something that ruffled the feathers of American and United. The industry is very tight on costs which they would have seen as a bit of a slap in the face. So whilst I respect your view sadly on this one, primera may have looked on paper with a USA route network out of BHX IT HAS COME AT HUGE COST along with bad reputation for both BHX and Primera.

 

[Jerry]

I am in no doubt primera would have been given a incentive.

Of course Primera would've been given an incentive but rather as an airline to replace airlines that were leaving. It wasn't just BHX that they left but NCL and BFS as well and American dropped JFK-MAN.
From the US3s point of view aging aircraft with a lie flat business class cabin are better off used operating East to West Coast USA where if they go tech they can be replaced quite easily.

 

[nwoody2001]

I do find it funny that people here seem to think that BHX would have bought Primera in at the cost of having UA and TS pull out. people aslo seem to forget that competition can also stimulate the market.

If UA and TS were serious about BHX, they would have grown during their time at the airport and stuck around but instead they either offered us poor quality products and/or poor schedules/capacity. The reality is, I suspect they saw BHX as an easy way to utilise an aircraft and as such we happy to stick around with BHX until a better route become available.

Primera may well have been the saviour of UA/TS pulling out and them willing to fill the gap, which BHX were willing to put a risk on because no-one else was coming forward. What would you expect the airport to do. Think itself above a new airline and have the routes unserved or take the risk, which appears to not have paid of.

I have hope they will be back next year, I really hope they do.

Why people seem to see primera as 'cowboys' and an airline below the standards BHX should e aiming for however when those 'legit' airlines have left BHX high and dry is beyond me however!

 

[Creguk]

Let's just take it on face value that they said they will be back next Summer with brand new aircraft. I look forward to it!

 

[rollo]

Take your points nwoody but both United/Continental and Air Transit were around for 20 years plus so must have taken BHX reasonably seriously, also I forgot to mentions Icelandairs rapid withdrawal given their T/A connections.
Maybe all coincidence who knows but at least it keeps this forum ticking over.

Cheers rollo

 

[nwoody2001]

Take your points nwoody but both United/Continental and Air Transit were around for 20 years plus so must have taken BHX reasonably seriously, also I forgot to mentions Icelandairs rapid withdrawal given their T/A connections.
Maybe all coincidence who knows but at least it keeps this forum ticking over.

Cheers rollo

They took us so seriously that...

UA downgraded us over the 20 years to their smallest and oldest planes and reduced frequencies to 4x weekly in winter with pretty high base fares of £800+

TS refused to give us more than 1x route at 1x weekly when their other U.K. airports has numerous routes with numerous frequencies.

I don’t claim Primera are perfect and they have gotten them self into an awful situation for a number of reason (some their fault, others not) but don’t kid yourself that UA or TS we’re anymore loyal or better for BHX!

 

[jfy1999]

Now I suppose it's just a waiting game until S19 is released...hopefully their revised schedule will have more capacity assuming they have all the aircraft in place...

 

[Creguk]

And hopefully with the new aircraft there will be no issues and 2018 will be forgotten about

 

[Brum X]

A very dark cloud hangs over Diamond House atm, a lot of worried and glum faces today me thinks.

TATL from BHX just isn't going to be the huge success we all want it to be.

LHR/MAN both have this covered, BHX will pick up some crumbs along the way but that's it im afraid. Even more difficult to sustain TATL when relations/trade with Trump is up the spout.

 

[BHXsupporter]

https://flic.kr/p/24EkEGL

 

[Ianbutty]

A very dark cloud hangs over Diamond House atm, a lot of worried and glum faces today me thinks.

TATL from BHX just isn't going to be the huge success we all want it to be.

LHR/MAN both have this covered, BHX will pick up some crumbs along the way but that's it im afraid. Even more difficult to sustain TATL when relations/trade with Trump is up the spout.

I agree. Not bothered by USA anymore. Old hat.

Lets focus on business to business Euro centres (assuming post Brexit stability) and the underserved tourist destinations and Indian sub-continent growth.

As for Canada, maybe Transat will come back.

 

[richard winterbourn]

MY observation of this decision is that Primera Air have done the right thing in postponing their TATL operations from BHX.

To date, they have suffered umpteen problems through cancelled and delayed flights and have suffered a major PR catastrophe into the bargain.

Who's fault? Shared in my opinion; the airline was over optimistic in being able to take delivery of the aircraft they had ordered and Airbus have shown themselves to be totally unreliable in matching orders to delivery dates.

What is reassuring is Primera's statement of this morning. It shows continued TATL commitment to BHX - but from 2019. They could have cancelled this programme completely, wiped their hands of it and walked away, but they have not, they have said they will be there in 2019.

Their current programme of short-haul flights appear to be working satisfactorily and i hope that will continue and it will, hopefully, enable them to establish both a presence at BHX but also to re-assure the travelling public that they are a credible airline before their TATL re-launch in summer 2019.

 

[Brum X]

In all of this it is just a sad state of affairs that Birmingham (Britain's second biggest city) has no direct flights to New York.

Not positive for Brum's reputation at all

 

[GliderPilot]

What's gone from a really brilliant consistent growth at BHX has rapidly u-turned into decline and issue after issue with no leadership from the top (Where on Earth is the/a CEO?). Only at Birmingham...

Running out of optimism if you can't tell!!

 

[rollo]

Just waiting for the upcoming terminal devlopment news that Bhx will build an extra lane on the M40 and M6 north to improve facilities for locals to reach the New World.

Have a nice day.
Lol

 

[thunderchild]

The sad thing is I read a trip report of STN-EWR on the new A321neo - it was quite positive and in all fairness it didn’t look too bad at all.

Question is does the fault lie with Primera for running before they could walk or Airbus for not delivering on time? Either way I fear the damage is done and I think the fate of BHX now lies in how STN performs from here on - have to say I’m not 100% convinced Primera TATL will be returning next summer.