HS2 losers -Aberdeen, Bristol, Cardiff, Leeds and....

[Brum X]

Or it could just turn Birmingham into a suburb of London. Quicker access means people can commute and firms may not look then to relocate. It's the same with BHX quicker access to London potentially means it's easier for passengers to get to Heathrow potentially meaning airlines have less need to expand out of Heathrow.

But places like Milton Keynes and Reading are booming, exactly for this reason. Rents in London are sky high, why wouldn't you look to move somewhere cheaper ? Birmingham overall is a poor city, the poorest out of all the big English cities and that is a national disgrace. In the 70s and early 80's Birmingham's economy was richer than London's, so maybe the government have finally realised Birmingham's potential and after 20 years of a booming Manchester which by the way is in the North, it's now time for Birmingham to turn it's economy around for the benefit of its people.

But LHR is at near capacity, so not much room for growth, the reason why they keep chopping and changing routes out of LGW. At the end of the day it will depend on which side of LOndon you live, if you live near Old Oak Common, it may just put BHX into some people's minds instead of a London airport, who knows ?

 

[Silvercity]

We are to hear today what will happen instead on HS2 for the north. Hopefully some sort of trans north rail improvement. Wales has been mentioned too. Possibly electrification on the lines from Crewe to Holyhead. Have to wait and see.

 

[Aviador]

Well it is now official. The Manchester line is now canned. With a Leeds eye on this, personally I am pleased if it means some of the money will now go to places like Leeds for other transport initiatives. Unfortunately though, being so close to a general election I don't trust any of them to delivery anything. I fully expect if Labour were in power they would do exactly the same after considering the spiralling costs. It's absolutely bonkers that the UK can't deliver this though. Why can't the UK build infrastructure anymore, why does it cost so much? If it was any other country in the world it would get built, but not the UK.

#HS2Fiasco

 

[Jerry]

It is a massive failure of Westminster and the reality is that you just can't trust Westminster governments to deliver infrastructure projects like this.

 

[Aviador]

It is a massive failure of Westminster and the reality is that you just can't trust Westminster governments to deliver infrastructure projects like this.

It is a massive failure but it's a failure I honestly have expected from the start. I'm actually surprised even the Birmingham leg is being built if I'm honest.

#HS2Fiasco

 

[pug]

I think it’s a failure in the entire political system that has slowly eroded from a pragmatic and forward thinking institution decades ago to now a populist machine that only charlatans can gain any foothold in.

I’m sorry to get political on here, and to be honest I’ve long believed that HS2 would be cut short or cancelled completely eventually, but we really do need a reset in this country.

In terms of infrastructure, we are running railways that were built in the Victorian era, with very few upgrades to many of the lines since. We have airports that are mostly legacies of WW2 and have had to adapt to those constraints. Everything is privatised which brings competition (which isn’t necessarily a bad thing) but prevents a joined up approach to large scale developments. In my neck of the woods if I want to travel north or south I’m stuck to largely single carriageway roads to do so or a 50 mile diversion Westwards before I can head north or south, and the City I live in isn’t exactly small.

We need people who know what they are doing and are not affected by the political election cycles, and we need guarantees in place that once ground is broken the project must be completed unless there are extreme circumstances that they must stop. Otherwise money is just purely wasted.

I admire your optimism Aviador, but I really don’t think many of the pledges made today will ever see the light of day sadly.

 

[Coathanger16]

A sad day indeed for UK infrastructure - time to either take control away from government. Not just HS2 but all infrastructure.

Regardless of how anyone feels about HS2, Sunak has kept the project in limbo over the last 2 weeks (and since he took office really) so that he could announce the scrapping when he wanted to at a time that would best suit him. Frankly, this guy should not be running the country.

The biggest infrastructure project this country has seen in over a generation has been scaled back to a third of its original size. I don't see how the private sector can have any confidence in investing in infrastructure in this country, and that will hurt this country for a long time. The government wants to reduce borrowing. You do that by giving the private sector confidence, not by shattering it.

There's not enough time between now and the next election for any of his "promises" to be delivered, and I doubt any of them will see the light of day under this, or by some miracle the next, Conservative Government. In any case, all these other schemes should be happening anyway concurrently with HS2.

The Prime Minister drove (or was driven) from London to Manchester, whilst the Chancellor flew. That tells you all you need to know about what this government thinks about rail infrastructure.

 

[Silvercity]

It is a massive failure of Westminster and the reality is that you just can't trust Westminster governments to deliver infrastructure projects like this.

There is Still no electrification to South Wales and down to Devon and Cornwall.

It goes to show the government has no real interest outside the SE double.

 

[Jerry]

There is Still no electrification to South Wales and down to Devon and Cornwall.

The South Wales mainline was electrified up to Cardiff but it was supposed to go to Swansea but that was cancelled in 2017 as it was too costly. Same with Devon and Cornwall and i generally don't see either happening unless it ends up devolved and the local devolved authority/Parliament does it. As part of Sunaks plan electrification of the north Wales mainline was announced but i would be shocked if it happens. I expect eventually Labour will cut it because it costs too much and the Tories will use that in opposition against Labour and i expect that'll be no different with the projects in England as well.

 

[Aviador]

I admire your optimism Aviador, but I really don’t think many of the pledges made today will ever see the light of day sadly.

Have I mist something ,where was my optimism?

A sad day indeed for UK infrastructure - time to either take control away from government. Not just HS2 but all infrastructure.

Regardless of how anyone feels about HS2, Sunak has kept the project in limbo over the last 2 weeks (and since he took office really) so that he could announce the scrapping when he wanted to at a time that would best suit him. Frankly, this guy should not be running the country.

The biggest infrastructure project this country has seen in over a generation has been scaled back to a third of its original size. I don't see how the private sector can have any confidence in investing in infrastructure in this country, and that will hurt this country for a long time. The government wants to reduce borrowing. You do that by giving the private sector confidence, not by shattering it.

There's not enough time between now and the next election for any of his "promises" to be delivered, and I doubt any of them will see the light of day under this, or by some miracle the next, Conservative Government. In any case, all these other schemes should be happening anyway concurrently with HS2.

The Prime Minister drove (or was driven) from London to Manchester, whilst the Chancellor flew. That tells you all you need to know about what this government thinks about rail infrastructure.

That is all a matter of opinion and what might not now be good news for Manchester or Birmingham, at least more of the country is being considered. @pug is spot on though. We're heading towards a general election. Whoever gets in will chop and change everything announced today and you can be sure more places will be disappointed as the axe falls post election.

 

[Coathanger16]

Have I mist something ,where was my optimism?


That is all a matter of opinion and what might not now be good news for Manchester or Birmingham, at least more of the country is being considered. @pug is spot on though. We're heading towards a general election. Whoever gets in will chop and change everything announced today and you can be sure more places will be disappointed as the axe falls post election.

It's no secret Rishi is anti HS2 and rail in general and was opposed to it as Chancellor. He's now got the change to axe as much of it as he can - if phase 1 wasn't as far progressed he would have cancelled it as well.

I'm sorry but if you think it's being considered you are being optimistic.

The conservatives know that it's almost certain they'll be out of government at the next election. The more I've heard today the more I believe that and it honestly sickens me. Not content with simply cancelling phase 2, they're attempting to push through before the next election the sale of all land CPO'd for Phase 2 before next summer as well as reducing the size of the Euston HS2 extension by half and selling off the land to be built on. Why? To stop any future government from building the rest of HS2. If they were even semi confident about winning the next election there wouldn't be such a rush.

The "promise" of these projects is to deflect from cancelling HS2 for the simple purpose of trying to soften the blow at the next election. The less seats they win the harder it will be for them the election after next.

 

[Aviador]

It's no secret Rishi is anti HS2 and rail in general and was opposed to it as Chancellor. He's now got the change to axe as much of it as he can - if phase 1 wasn't as far progressed he would have cancelled it as well.

I'm sorry but if you think it's being considered you are being optimistic.

The conservatives know that it's almost certain they'll be out of government at the next election. The more I've heard today the more I believe that and it honestly sickens me. Not content with simply cancelling phase 2, they're attempting to push through before the next election the sale of all land CPO'd for Phase 2 before next summer as well as reducing the size of the Euston HS2 extension by half and selling off the land to be built on. Why? To stop any future government from building the rest of HS2. If they were even semi confident about winning the next election there wouldn't be such a rush.

The "promise" of these projects is to deflect from cancelling HS2 for the simple purpose of trying to soften the blow at the next election. The less seats they win the harder it will be for them the election after next.

I share your pessimism and I also don't think the majority of the things the government are suggesting now will see the light of day. Rest assured though Labour in change wont mean a resurrection of HS2 or money for the North either. I don't trust any of them. If anything we'll just see more 20mph zones and cycle lanes if Labour gets in. We will see another five years of arguing and wrangling before whatever is next is canned again.

 

[pug]

Have I mist something ,where was my optimism?


That is all a matter of opinion and what might not now be good news for Manchester or Birmingham, at least more of the country is being considered. @pug is spot on though. We're heading towards a general election. Whoever gets in will chop and change everything announced today and you can be sure more places will be disappointed as the axe falls post election.

Was referring to where you said that hopefully the money saved from this would go towards other projects that might benefit Leeds. There is a train of thought that many of the schemes announced today had already had funding allocated anyway, and that some of them had already been built!

 

[Silvercity]

The South Wales mainline was electrified up to Cardiff but it was supposed to go to Swansea but that was cancelled in 2017 as it was too costly. Same with Devon and Cornwall and i generally don't see either happening unless it ends up devolved and the local devolved authority/Parliament does it. As part of Sunaks plan electrification of the north Wales mainline was announced but i would be shocked if it happens. I expect eventually Labour will cut it because it costs too much and the Tories will use that in opposition against Labour and i expect that'll be no different with the projects in England as well.

Its ridiculous the North Wales line is not electrified . Because its not from Crewe onwards , they use a diesel all the way from London when there is electric power as far as Crewe already but not beyond.

I share your pessimism and I also don't think the majority of the things the government are suggesting now will see the light of day. Rest assured though Labour in change wont mean a resurrection of HS2 or money for the North either. I don't trust any of them. If anything we'll just see more 20mph zones and cycle lanes if Labour gets in. We will see another five years of arguing and wrangling before whatever is next is canned again.

As a cyclist i want to see more cycle lanes so I can be safe from traffic,.and not breath in fumes.

 

[Aviador]

Its ridiculous the North Wales line is not electrified . Because its not from Crewe onwards , they use a diesel all the way from London when there is electric power as far as Crewe already but not beyond.



As a cyclist i want to see more cycle lanes so I can be safe from traffic,.and not breath in fumes.

I'm not against cycle lanes but I am against councils prioritising them over roads. Unfortunately the majority of cyclists are social cyclists going out for some exercise so it isn't going to help the economy by expanding them further without consideration to the motorist.

Must admit though its been a big kick in the teeth for mancs today but a good day for Leeds if we get supertram, a big IF though!

Given that Manchester is now going to get a tram to Manchester airport which it has had since 2014 I'd say this is all just a load of bollocks. #HS2Fiasco

For me now it's just a case of who do you trust the most? Conservatives and their broken promises and broken NHS or Labour, their higher taxes, 15 minute towns and cycle lanes and secretly continuing to privatise the NHS just as they did with the dentist and doctors surgeries in 2004. There really is little to chose from.

 

[pug]

I'm not against cycle lanes but I am against councils prioritising them over roads. Unfortunately the majority of cyclists are social cyclists going out for some exercise so it isn't going to help the economy by expanding them further without consideration to the motorist.

Given that Manchester is now going to get a tram to Manchester airport which it has had since 2014 I'd say this is all just a load of bollocks. #HS2Fiasco

For me now it's just a case of who do you trust the most? Conservatives and their broken promises and broken NHS or Labour, their higher taxes, 15 minute towns and cycle lanes and secretly continuing to privatise the NHS just as they did with the dentist and doctors surgeries in 2004. There really is little to chose from.

There has to be a third way now, this limited democracy (and thus choice), is ruining our reputation and like I said previously, has turned the whole thing into a farce where only the popular people with no substance get into any position of power. I hold no strong political persuasion on either side, but this current crop of lunatics who have been driving political decisions for the last 7 or so years are probably the worst this country has seen in at least the last 100 years.

Case In point is people like Rory Stewart, an articulate, well travelled and studious man who has been cut out of the political system and replaced by people like Boris, a confirmed liar who has coasted through life without lifting so much as a finger.

I refer back to my previous post. We need a government of technocrats who are not swayed by public opinion and set to work without all the fluff and bluster to reset the entire system and at least get this country back on to the right track (whatever that might be), as currently we are at a race to the bottom and just when you think things couldn’t get any worse they pull something else out of the hat!

It’s all very concerning.

 

[Brum X]

I'm not against cycle lanes but I am against councils prioritising them over roads. Unfortunately the majority of cyclists are social cyclists going out for some exercise so it isn't going to help the economy by expanding them further without consideration to the motorist.

Given that Manchester is now going to get a tram to Manchester airport which it has had since 2014 I'd say this is all just a load of b-llocks. #HS2Fiasco

For me now it's just a case of who do you trust the most? Conservatives and their broken promises and broken NHS or Labour, their higher taxes, 15 minute towns and cycle lanes and secretly continuing to privatise the NHS just as they did with the dentist and doctors surgeries in 2004. There really is little to chose from.

B-LLOCKS on this Forum Aviador.

 

[Aviador]

So as it transpires, all the promise of HS2 money going to the regions was just illustrative so the probability is there is no money.