A new airport.... South Yorkshire Airport City?

[radar]

Interesting. I wonder whether these trainees have been bonded? It’s a nice ticket to a higher salary elsewhere one the free training is complete and they’re fully rated!

They will certainly have been bonded, the industry standard is for 3 years post-validation for each rating, but there’s no downside for these guys - if the airport closes again (or never opens) then the bonds would be void and they can get a job somewhere else with their ratings (worth many tens of thousands of pounds, courtesy of the Doncaster taxpayer).

Assuming they qualify and the airport remains open, as locals they are less likely to move on - but it’s still a possibility. LBA and EMA pay more, so the draw is there.

 

[pug]

They will certainly have been bonded, the industry standard is for 3 years post-validation for each rating, but there’s no downside for these guys - if the airport closes again (or never opens) then the bonds would be void and they can get a job somewhere else with their ratings (worth many tens of thousands of pounds, courtesy of the Doncaster taxpayer).

Assuming they qualify and the airport remains open, as locals they are less likely to move on - but it’s still a possibility. LBA and EMA pay more, so the draw is there.

That assumes the council have been savvy enough to establish a bond? But I’d expect they’ve been advised to by whoever is consulting on it. Out of interest how much are bonds in the ATCO world and how are they structured? Are they like in the flying world where they can be anything up to £40k reducing with time served? I assume they have yet to enter the world of self funding ratings, and as it’s an employee market I can’t imagine they ever will.

I’m tending towards @Eusebius suspicion that, as things stand, they probably don’t have enough funding to actually fully open the airport and keep it open. I expect this phased approach might be a long drawn out process as they will not open fully in Easter 2028 unless they have the airlines to actually use it!

 

[radar]

That assumes the council have been savvy enough to establish a bond? But I’d expect they’ve been advised to by whoever is consulting on it. Out of interest how much are bonds in the ATCO world and how are they structured? Are they like in the flying world where they can be anything up to £40k reducing with time served? I assume they have yet to enter the world of self funding ratings, and as it’s an employee market I can’t imagine they ever will.

Fair point. If the nine were recruited by CDC before they’d appointed a head of ATC then they might well not be bonded - see my post of several weeks ago when I was astonished that they were recruiting controllers before they had an experienced ATC manager to do that job.

Bonds are typically for the full value of the course (plus the cost of 2-3 months accommodation per course) and reduce over time. For someone starting from scratch that would likely end up in the £50k - £100k range, although I haven’t seen a course price list for a few years.

I don’t know what the received wisdom about the enforceability of such bonds is in the flying world, but it is generally accepted in ATC that while they would be difficult to enforce if someone left without paying off their bond, it’s a bad idea to do so in such a small industry where everyone knows everyone else.

Self-funding is actually a thing, although it seems less prevalent than it was 10-15 years ago for some reason. No bond is applicable in such cases. However it’s a huge financial risk for an individual to self-fund very challenging and expensive courses for which there’s no guarantee of success.

 

[pug]

Fair point. If the nine were recruited by CDC before they’d appointed a head of ATC then they might well not be bonded - see my post of several weeks ago when I was astonished that they were recruiting controllers before they had an experienced ATC manager to do that job.

Bonds are typically for the full value of the course (plus the cost of 2-3 months accommodation per course) and reduce over time. For someone starting from scratch that would likely end up in the £50k - £100k range, although I haven’t seen a course price list for a few years.

I don’t know what the received wisdom about the enforceability of such bonds is in the flying world, but it is generally accepted in ATC that while they would be difficult to enforce if someone left without paying off their bond, it’s a bad idea to do so in such a small industry where everyone knows everyone else.

Self-funding is actually a thing, although it seems less prevalent than it was 10-15 years ago for some reason. No bond is applicable in such cases. However it’s a huge financial risk for an individual to self-fund very challenging and expensive courses for which there’s no guarantee of success.

Fair point. If the nine were recruited by CDC before they’d appointed a head of ATC then they might well not be bonded - see my post of several weeks ago when I was astonished that they were recruiting controllers before they had an experienced ATC manager to do that job.

Bonds are typically for the full value of the course (plus the cost of 2-3 months accommodation per course) and reduce over time. For someone starting from scratch that would likely end up in the £50k - £100k range, although I haven’t seen a course price list for a few years.

I don’t know what the received wisdom about the enforceability of such bonds is in the flying world, but it is generally accepted in ATC that while they would be difficult to enforce if someone left without paying off their bond, it’s a bad idea to do so in such a small industry where everyone knows everyone else.

Self-funding is actually a thing, although it seems less prevalent than it was 10-15 years ago for some reason. No bond is applicable in such cases. However it’s a huge financial risk for an individual to self-fund very challenging and expensive courses for which there’s no guarantee of success.

In the flying world it’s potentially legally not enforceable but you’d be daft to risk it as it’s a similarly very small world and you’ll find yourself struggling to move around if you start reneging on things like bond agreements. Bonds are typically 2-3 years for qualified but non type rated pilots, fully funded cadet schemes tend to be longer and more tying financially for obvious reasons but I know of one outfit that works closely with the military who have a 4 year bond which I believe to be in the region of £40k reducing pro rata.

I’d expect that Cyrrus or whoever was advising may have recommended a bonding scheme, but with local authority projects I wouldn’t be surprised if they have no such bond. It does again bet the question as to whether they will all be fully qualified by the ‘go live’ date currently set at Easter 2028. But again I don’t think they have sufficient finance to see it through that far as things stand, unless they’re very lucky and don’t find any more surprises!

 

[Eusebius]

. It does again bet the question as to whether they will all be fully qualified by the ‘go live’ date currently set at Easter 2028. But again I don’t think they have sufficient finance to see it through that far as things stand, unless they’re very lucky and don’t find any more surprises!

They aren't going to be flying passengers in 2028 are they. That's just fantasy BS for Facebook! They've got too much to do, and from what I can make out very little is actually happening apart from a bit of mowing and such like.

Apart from not having enough money or any interest from airlines, I suspect the problem is they don't know what they're doing. As that Conservative councillor pointed out, they're out of their depth fixing potholes and running outdoor markets and leisure centres. They've got bob hope with a bloody airport!

 

[Egyptian King]

The mechanic is giving Doncaster Chamber and Doncaster business news updates including Doncaster Market in his video, and political updates on his YouTube channel, plus repair of the week.
Labour will run him knowing he has no chance of winning, probably Isle of axholme if Lee is not running.

 

[pug]

They aren't going to be flying passengers in 2028 are they. That's just fantasy BS for Facebook! They've got too much to do, and from what I can make out very little is actually happening apart from a bit of mowing and such like.

Apart from not having enough money or any interest from airlines, I suspect the problem is they don't know what they're doing. As that Conservative councillor pointed out, they're out of their depth fixing potholes and running outdoor markets and leisure centres. They've got bob hope with a bloody airport!

They aren't going to be flying passengers in 2028 are they. That's just fantasy BS for Facebook! They've got too much to do, and from what I can make out very little is actually happening apart from a bit of mowing and such like.

Apart from not having enough money or any interest from airlines, I suspect the problem is they don't know what they're doing. As that Conservative councillor pointed out, they're out of their depth fixing potholes and running outdoor markets and leisure centres. They've got bob hope with a bloody airport!

They will if they secure an airline that actually wants to. However I think they’ll hold off on investing into the terminal until they’ve secured an airline partner. They’re spending time at the moment focussing on trying to get all the regulatory stuff aligned, they’ll be hoping they can get freight moving through it. They’ll be talking ti airlines now about training agreements and such like as that sort of thing will be amongst the first to start. What I think will happen though is people will be disappointed but because there is a group of people who just want the airport to reopen they’ll continue supporting it whilst expectations are carefully managed down.

These Microsoft Forms show, amongst other things, that they aren’t prepared to pay MAI all that much.. They do genuinely believe that having an open airport will miraculously result in a successful airport. How wrong they are.

 

[Eusebius]

They will if they secure an airline that actually wants to. However I think they’ll hold off on investing into the terminal until they’ve secured an airline partner. They’re spending time at the moment focussing on trying to get all the regulatory stuff aligned, they’ll be hoping they can get freight moving through it. They’ll be talking ti airlines now about training agreements and such like as that sort of thing will be amongst the first to start. What I think will happen though is people will be disappointed but because there is a group of people who just want the airport to reopen they’ll continue supporting it whilst expectations are carefully managed down.

These Microsoft Forms show, amongst other things, that they aren’t prepared to pay MAI all that much.. They do genuinely believe that having an open airport will miraculously result in a successful airport. How wrong they are.

Well it's much more your expertise than mine, but we're half way through 2026 and from what I can gather all they've actually got physically is a runway and a car park. Going from there to where they need to be to be flying passengers... that's a mammoth task. The CAA cannot inspect and certify equipment that doesn't exist.

On your second point - 100%. The only way any of this works financially is if they open the doors in 2028 and it immediately becomes wildly profitable. I don't know if they really believe that's going to happen and it's yet another symptom of their delusion, or whether they're simply lying.

 

[pug]

Well it's much more your expertise than mine, but we're half way through 2026 and from what I can gather all they've actually got physically is a runway and a car park. Going from there to where they need to be to be flying passengers... that's a mammoth task. The CAA cannot inspect and certify equipment that doesn't exist.

On your second point - 100%. The only way any of this works financially is if they open the doors in 2028 and it immediately becomes wildly profitable. I don't know if they really believe that's going to happen and it's yet another symptom of their delusion, or whether they're simply lying.

Well this is the reason Christian Foster has been appointed project director. His experience is in public bricks and mortar. What they’re effectively doing is building it like any other public sector development (runway, terminal, car park etc) but they’re significantly under appreciating the commercial aspect. This is the fatal flaw and what will come back to bite them. It’s why his interviews are embarrassing and show how out of his depth he is. It’s not his fault, he probably is capable in other circumstances, but this is a miscalculation. They need the commercial people in now not when the airport is open.

 

[Egyptian King]

40,000 followers, well actually he has 27,000 in a group, they are not following him, 3,000 on LinkedIn, 2336 Facebook and 1500 on Twitter
The mechanic thinks they are tuning into his weekly goings on in stadium garage plus Doncaster news and his car of the week because he is Chaddy, a normal Doncaster man.

 

[pug]

The fire engine is now in place at Doncaster Sheffield Airport

Campaigners have described it as “another positive step forward”

www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk

Some may have a few questions about this latest ‘news’ and who has decided to announce it.

 

[White Heather]

The fire engine is now in place at Doncaster Sheffield Airport

Campaigners have described it as “another positive step forward”

www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk

Some may have a few questions about this latest ‘news’ and who has decided to announce it.

It seems Chadwick is now DSAs PR department. Not a word from the actual operators, just an entire article quoting his nonsenical ramblings.

 

[Finger66]

The fire engine is now in place at Doncaster Sheffield Airport

Campaigners have described it as “another positive step forward”

www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk

Some may have a few questions about this latest ‘news’ and who has decided to announce it.

Was this done politically correctly by putting it out to tender!

 

[Eusebius]

It seems Chadwick is now DSAs PR department. Not a word from the actual operators, just an entire article quoting his nonsenical ramblings.

“While it is not an aircraft fire and tender, it will play an important role in supporting airport operations and developing the airport's emergency response capability ahead of reopening.”

Okay. So they've actually just bought a red van! 🤣

 

[pug]

“While it is not an aircraft fire and tender, it will play an important role in supporting airport operations and developing the airport's emergency response capability ahead of reopening.”

Okay. So they've actually just bought a red van! 🤣

Effectively yes. I don’t see what role it plays in developing the airports emergency response capability. They need to be buying Strikers or Panthers that cost £1million a pop, not some clapped out old domestic fire engine that’s probably cost a few grand (some may say they ordered it from Temu) and allowing their official unofficial spokesperson to go raving about it on social media and in the local newspaper. Seems to make a mockery of it, if that wasn’t already the case.

 

[rabbitfoot]

things are moving forward , a multi-national tobacco company are taking over one of the hangars i have been told.

 

[pug]

things are moving forward , a multi-national tobacco company are taking over one of the hangars i have been told.

Yes, moving forward to its inevitable redevelopment into a warehouse park.

 

[rabbitfoot]

peel have also paired up with a yorkshire builder to start their housing projects, it is no longer the sheffield outfit.

 

[dmrodgers]

things are moving forward , a multi-national tobacco company are taking over one of the hangars i have been told.

Like the airport going up in smoke

 

[Finger66]

Yes looks like they can faget it reopening as an airport!